Millennial Kingdom

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by webdog, Feb 10, 2011.

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  1. webdog

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    Questions I cannot seem to grasp the answers on concerning the Millennial Kingdom.

    How will there be reproduction if the MK is made up of all of God's redeemed children? Why wouldn't these children be as their parents, with no sin nature?

    How will it be possible for these children to die (since it cannot be believers)?

    How will it be possible for humans to rebel? Will the offspring of believers still have sin natures? How?

    If people will be able to die, will animals still?

    Why "must" Satan be release for a time to gather an army? How can this army be made up of people being born if there will be no marriage?
     
  2. pinoybaptist

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    you're getting there, webbie, you're getting there...;):flower:
     
  3. webdog

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    Surely there is an eschatology expert out there? :)
     
  4. webdog

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    Probably not, but always open to suggestions :)
     
  5. Amy.G

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    Who says they won't have a sin nature? What they won't have is Satan tempting them to sin. He will be locked away.


    Why wouldn't they die? They will not have a resurrected body, only a natural one.


    Because they are the same as you and I, but without temptation.


    I assume so.


    Where does it say there will be no marriage? The MK is made up of believers who survive the Tribulation. They are still on earth. They have not died.
     
  6. webdog

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    So...believers will be raptured pre-tribulation. There will be those who come to Christ during the great tribulation, but they will be martyred (I don't see where any survive). We will return with Christ on the earth, will not marry, will not reproduce...so if all believers are either raptured or martyred, who will be doing the reproducing? How will these humans go 1000 years without sinning (as there will be no temptation to in a true Theocracy with King Jesus and no demons or satan), but then fall away when satan is released?
     
  7. webdog

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    Our flesh and blood cannot inherit Heaven. I'm not reconciling the fact there will be sinners in Christ's presence that will need faith in Him as faith is the evidence of what is hoped for and NOT seen. How will there be sinners committing sin for 1000 years along side those who have been glorified? What happens to the sin natures of the tribulation saints if they do not die?

    OT Scripture speaks of the Millennium as a time of peace, prosperity, joy, purity, prolonged life. How with sinners and sin on the earth still?

    I cannot envision a world occupied by angels, glorified humans including some of the theological giants like Abraham, Isaac, Moses, John, Luke, Paul, etc. and regular, sinful men who still require faith in Christ, which by the very definition of faith muddies the waters of how that can be.
     
    #7 webdog, Feb 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2011
  8. menageriekeeper

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    I find it interesting that no one has come forward to try and answer your questions except for Amy, Webdog. I've had some of these same questions over the years and have yet to find a satisfactory answer for them. However, I've come up with a few ideas that I figure I'll find out the truth of sometime between here and eternity. :D Just remember this is only my opinion:

    Of course there is also the theory that now is the thousand year period and we are now being ruled by Christ spiritually..............

    Not sure I believe that though.
     
  9. asterisktom

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    This "theory" is exactly what I believe. The lack of evidence for the traditional Millennium that I had been taught was one of the first things that led me elsewhere. Before that I was quite convinced of the literal Mil. I even have an article on the web from the 90s called "Vegetarian Lions in the Millennium" (something like that) that is still out there.

    FWIW I am not chiming in here because I am busy elsewhere. Besides, I gather that WD is looking for a believer in the literal Mill. to answer - that would not be me.
     
    #9 asterisktom, Feb 10, 2011
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  10. Amy.G

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  11. thomas15

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    This is probably going to get me in trouble but here goes.

    I find it interesting that menageriekeeper finds this interesting. What I ask, could possibly be more interesting than what other people find interesting?

    One reason I have not responded is due to the fact that I'm enjoying some internet forum down time. Not very interesting I know but it's true. Or, it could be that I'm still recovering from a closed radial tib/fib fracture of the left leg, suffered first week of January. Surgery, screws/plates, percocet, all that interesting stuff. Some may find it interesting that I have not been able to put any weight on that leg for 5 weeks. I have lost 9 pounds, which might not seem like a big deal but now I'm tipping the scales at a massive 137. Then again another possibility as to why I have not weighed in on the millennial subject is that I'm getting tired of debate with theologians who get all of their dispensational millennial information from anti-dispensationalists. You might think that those fine folks, the anti-dispensationalists, would be interested in learning what dispensationalists really believe about the "traditional Millennium" but apparently it isn't of interest to them.

    So I guess what I'm trying to say is normally I would have offered another opinion that would have conflicted with the Puritan view so popular with this body of Baptist believers but my personal circumstances, well are kind of hampering my thought processes. I'm really proud of the fact that this week I put in at my place of employment four (4) 10 hour days a little more than 3 weeks after surgery. Does anyone here find it interesting that among the covenant A-MIL and Preterist crowd there is a wide range of views on the nature and purpose of the millennium and yet total agreement among them that any dispies that stray even in the most miniscule detail from the teaching of the 1917 Scofield invalidates the entire dispensational system?
     
  12. J.D.

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    Good questions Webdog. There are a lot of consequences to having resurrected humans living with mortal flesh-and-blood humans. A lot of inconsistencies that cannot be reconciled. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of responses you may get on this.
     
  13. Grasshopper

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    Like Tom, I assumed you wanted answers from someone who actually believes in a 1000 year MK.

    I'll throw out this question, If 2 Peter 3 describes what happens at Christ's second coming, then how could anyone live to enter the MK?


    *10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.


    Amy, does DW Pentecost have an answer for this?

    Also, you don't need Satan to have sin or temptation:

    James 1:12Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, 6 for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life that he promised to those who love him.
    13
    7 No one experiencing temptation should say, "I am being tempted by God"; for God is not subject to temptation to evil, and he himself tempts no one.
    14
    Rather, each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

    15
    Then desire conceives and brings forth sin, and when sin reaches maturity it gives birth to death.
    16
     
  14. psalms109:31

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    Scripture

    Revelation 20:
    3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

    Revelation 20:
    4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[Or God; I also saw those who] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)...
     
  15. convicted1

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    Brother, this is a deep subject, and I can only "wade" so far, but I will to swing at a few pitches and see if I can hit one out of the ballpark!!

    First off, are you, pre-, mid-, post-, or amil? I am AMIL, so I will give you my "take" on each question.

    We will all have "glorified" spiritual bodies when Jesus comes to gather us home. Jesus said that His Father is a Spirit, and He seeketh such to worship Him in Spirit and Truth!! So I see it this way, God is a Spirit, we who are born again, are adopted into the family of Christ, and when He comes to get His Bride, we will have a body like Jesus' most glorified body!!


    Brother, I will "try" tp answer these in one big wad, okay?? First off, if Satan isn't loose now, then who is causing all the turmoil here now?? I believe that the 1,000 years is a symbol of the church age and we are in the middle(or quite possibilty the end) of this 1,000 symbolic years...not a literal 1,000 years. Here is a passage of scripture to look at:

    Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

    16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

    17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

    18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

    19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

    20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

    21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    And another passage:
    Joel 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

    28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

    29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

    So Acts 2:15-21 was a fulfillment of Joel 2:27-29

    Brother WB, we have been in the last days since this time according to Peter.

    I believe that this earth on which we dwell now, will be wiped out completely...not here any more.

    2 Pet. 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    So you see, Brother WD, I see a general resurrection, where the dead in Christ shall rise first, and then those who died in sin shall rise also. One shall go up the other down.

    1 Thes. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    I hope this has cleared some things up. If not, ask me for some more clarification.

    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     
  16. convicted1

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    Here is another passage to look @ Brother WB:

    John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    So, in the stance I have taken, all of the things that has to do with the MK theology, are a "moot point". Meaning, that the things that people think are going to happen during the millienial reign, I think are going to happen prior to His coming in the clouds. If I am not mistaken, you are pre-mil, and will not agree with all that I posted. But, I hope that I have showed you something that will show where we "amil's" come from. Love you, Brother!!

    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     
  17. mandym

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    Why wouldn't there be? Who said it will only be made up of God's Children?
     
    #17 mandym, Feb 11, 2011
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  18. menageriekeeper

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    LOL Thomas! No trouble here. This is usually a well populated topic and I do find it interesting that Webdog isn't getting more reponse than this.

    I was wondering how work was going for you, so its good to hear from you. Painkillers steal my appetite too. My usual solution is milkshakes mixed with carnation instant breakfast. (you'll want to watch out for the sugar if you have problems with it) The combo gets in quite a lot of calories and the instant breakfast adds protien but doesn't taste nearly as bad as most protien powders.

    Mandy? Are your questions rhetorical or are you asking for the scriptures that support the ideas? (such as the Bible states there will be no marrying or giving in marriage for those in heaven and that idea precludes the idea that a ressurected body could procreate: no marriage=no babies)
     
  19. HankD

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    In one form of dispensationalism (pre-millennarianism) Christ "snatches away" believers immediately followed by the Tribulation which is described in in Revelation 4 and following.

    The implication of Revelation 9 and Revelation 16 which concerns those who "repent not" during the Tribulation is that there will be those who do repent.

    There is no explicit passage in Revelation (of which I am aware) that indicates every single individual who repents during the Tribualtion will necessarily be put to death.

    That being a possibility then those who repent and live through the Tribulation will go on into the Millennium.

    Though believers they will not have a resurrected body.

    As with every other system of eschatology, there are difficulties.

    The outcome of the long debate/argument not too long ago concerning preterism vs. futurism came after a long series of scriptural "gotchas" with ad hominae issued by both sides.

    I was part of the "argument" and felt badily later and made a public apology to my preterist brethren.

    So, my response here is an answer and not a challenge.

    HankD
     
  20. webdog

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    The MK will be made up of only those who have repented, Angels and those who return with Christ according to premillenialism pre-trib eschatology.
     
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