Mimics a denomination?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    In the thread about Cal/Arm... by SBC, Harold said
    In what way do you think the SBC "mimics" a (hierarchy) denomination?
     
  2. Herald

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    It has all the politics and infighting of the PCA. It only lacks courts and trials that are binding on individual congregations.
     
  3. 12strings

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    So would you favor much less, and much more local cooperation to the exclusion of state or national cooperation between churches? I think that's the only way to avoid politics and infighting...although even local associations have that as well.
     
  4. Herald

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    I will not presume to tell the SBC what to do. I have no dog in that hunt.

    I have a preference for local churches to attend to their own matters. That said, if I had to operate within an association or conference, I would. It is just not my preference.
     
  5. Salty

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    ( bold my emphasis)
    and that is the exact reason why the SBC is not a
    (hierarchy) denomination

    Harold, one other quick question-
    tried to check out your profile - but was unable
    just curious - what denomination are you with?
     
  6. Herald

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    Salty,

    I did not say the SBC was a denomination.

    My church is a denomination of one. It is a Reformed Baptist Church that is unaffiliated with any association or convention.
     
  7. Herald

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    While we are unaffiliated we do have unity on doctrine with like-minded churches since we subscribe to the 1689 LBC.
     
  8. 12strings

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    So if there were say, 3-4 like-minded churches in your area, and one of them came up with a project to build a church in haiti, that if it was entirely up to you, you would not join with those churches to do so, assuming it was something that might take 3-4 churches to raise the money for?

    (ie, you would go along with it, but it would not be your preference?)
     
  9. Herald

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    Apples and oranges. Choosing to help another church(es) does not equate with joining an association. A church cannot casually join the SBC.
     
  10. Salty

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    Then by definition, you are a denomination, as opposed to being a Denomination.

    Check out the definition

    what do you mean by "casually join"
     
  11. Herald

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    I know what a denomination is.

    A church cannot capriciosuly join the SBC. There is thought and commitment that goes with it. If you are in an SBC member church, do you not want a church to take its application for membership seriously?

    We are not a member of a formal association due to polity reasons. We will lend assistance to like-minded churches on various issues, but we will not cede local church autonomy either formally or informally.
     
  12. Salty

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    Then you know the Reformed Baptists are a denomination

    I never said you were in a formal association

    and neither do SBC affiliated churches cede local church autonomy


    We take the application of any church requesting AFFILIATION very seriously.
     
  13. Herald

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    Every church is a denomination. A denomination is simply a unit of measure. Even a nondenominational church is a denomination, albeit all to themselves. But my use of the term applies to more than churches that may or may not share common beliefs. You call Reformed Baptists a denomination. Before you do you need to qualify what a Reformed Baptist church is. The name has become popular with any Baptist church that believes in Calvinism. But that does not make a church Reformed. Reformed Baptist Churches are Calvinistic, covenantal, and confessional (1689 LBC). There are quite a few so-called Reformed Baptist Churches that are not confessional or covenantal. Some that are "covenantal" are actually antinomian. The point? The term has been co-opted by churches that are not Reformed.

    If you take the term denomination in the vernacular it has a cohesion beyond a loose confederation of churches. I would call ARBCA churches a denomination because they agree to a set of rules. They have officers, a budget, an even a seminary presence at WTS California. The SBC is ARBCA on steroids. That is neither a good or bad thing. It is an observation.

    I am glad to hear you take applicants seriously. You should. We take our unaffiliated status seriously.
     
  14. saturneptune

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    The first thing is that a hierarchy and being a denomination have nothing to do with each other.

    de·nom·i·na·tion (d-nm-nshn) KEY

    NOUN:

    A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.
    One of a series of kinds, values, or sizes, as in a system of currency or weights: Cash registers have compartments for bills of different denominations. The stamps come in 25¢ and 45¢ denominations.
    A name or designation, especially for a class or group

    There are many problems with the premise of the thread. One is that the poster stated he gets upset (poor thing) over the SBC because it mimics a denomination. Part one of the definition of a denomination in the sense he or she is talking about is flawed. The collection of churches under the SBC are local, autonomous churches, and are not "under a single administrative and legal hierarchy."

    Another problem in not calling the Baptist faith a denomination is that it fits under the third definition "a name or designation, especially for a class or group."

    There is a group of posters here that are more worried about vocabulary within the Baptist faith than they are telling the Gospel. They worry about calling a place of worship an auditorium a sanctuary. They worry about calling the Lords Supper and baptism ordinances instead of sacraments. Then, they worrying about autonomous local churches that are Baptist being called a denomination.

    If they spent as much time visiting as they do rewriting Websters dictionary, our pews would be a lot less empty.

    As far as the comment focusing on the SBC troubling posters for being "too much like a denomination," I will take the theology and its close alignment with Scripture over some of the many nut case Baptist sects that run rampant on this board daily.
     
    #14 saturneptune, Mar 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2013
  15. Jerome

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    Huh?

    This Confession that your Reformed Baptist Church 'subscribes to'—surely it's not the one "Adopted by the Ministers and Messengers of the General Assembly which Met in London in 1689"?

    The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith
     
  16. go2church

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    Just call a woman as pastor then you will see a whole bunch of hierarchy and denomination mimicking get rolling.
     
  17. Thomas Helwys

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    LOL! Indeed, indeed.
     

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