Minnesota Monster Mash:

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Sep 2, 2008.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    Glenn Greenwald tells a harrowing tale of police-state tactics in Minneapolis, with armed security forces conducting Baghdad-like raids on the houses of activists, terrorizing many and arresting some for thought crimes -- such as "planning to cause a riot" -- and other bogus charges. The sweeps -- guided and aided by the federal government -- are designed to "ensure domestic tranquility" during the imminent Republican convention in the city. As Greenwald points out, not one of those who were shackled, arrested and hauled out at gunpoint had committed any crime whatsoever.

    Heinous indeed, and entirely worthy of the anger that Greenwald marshals in his reports from the scene. But we must disagree with him on one crucial point: his repeated declaration that these incidents are "extraordinary." On the contrary, there is nothing at all remarkable about them. They are all of a piece with the similar tactics employed to cleanse the city of Denver of any unseemly expressions of old-fashioned, long-gone American liberties during the Democratic convention, where any protests that escaped the grotesque official "cage" set aside for them were strangled by militarized police and mass arrests.

    Such tactics are not confined to major political events with "national security" implications -- i.e., the presence of afflatus-bloated muckity-mucks who must be spared the slightest confrontation with their crimes and complicities. They are now simply part and parcel of modern American society. Greenwald might be mistaken in regarding the Minnesota Monster Mash as "extraordinary," but he is certainly correct when he notes its deeper implications:

    FULL ARTICLE.

    Massive police raids on suspected protesters in Minneapolis

    [updated below (with video) - Update II - Update III - Update IV]


    Protesters here in Minneapolis have been targeted by a series of highly intimidating, sweeping police raids across the city, involving teams of 25-30 officers in riot gear, with semi-automatic weapons drawn, entering homes of those suspected of planning protests, handcuffing and forcing them to lay on the floor, while law enforcement officers searched the homes, seizing computers, journals, and political pamphlets. Last night, members of the St. Paul police department and the Ramsey County sheriff's department handcuffed, photographed and detained dozens of people meeting at a public venue to plan a demonstration, charging them with no crime other than "fire code violations," and early this morning, the Sheriff's department sent teams of officers into at least four Minneapolis area homes where suspected protesters were staying.

    SOURCE.


    Guilty of planning protests?

    Federal government involved in raids on protesters

    As the police attacks on protesters in Minnesota continue -- see this video of the police swarming a bus transporting members of Earth Justice, seizing the bus and leaving the group members stranded on the side of the highway -- it appears increasingly clear that it is the Federal Government that is directing this intimidation campaign. Minnesota Public Radio reported yesterday that "the searches were led by the Ramsey County Sheriff's office. Deputies coordinated searches with the Minneapolis and St. Paul police departments and the Federal Bureau of Investigation."

    Today's Star Tribune added that the raids were specifically "aided by informants planted in protest groups." Back in May, Marcy Wheeler presciently noted that the Minneapolis Joint Terrorist Task Force -- an inter-agency group of federal, state and local law enforcement led by the FBI -- was actively recruiting Minneapolis residents to serve as plants, to infiltrate "vegan groups" and other left-wing activist groups and report back to the Task Force about what they were doing. There seems to be little doubt that it was this domestic spying by the Federal Government that led to the excessive and truly despicable home assaults by the police yesterday.

    SOURCE.

    Citizen Spies? Planting informants? COINTELPRO.


    A Nation on the Edge of the Final Descent (IV): A Country Ready to Follow Orders -- Even into Hell


    The tasering of Andrew Meyer became and remained a major news story for at least a week after it occurred. I didn't attempt to follow all the commentary; it would have been impossible for anyone to do so -- there was simply too much of it. But I tried to listen to and read a representative sampling of opinion, across the political spectrum. (Since I can't afford and thus don't have television, my listening was confined to radio.) As I showed in Part III, two primary themes announced themselves, regardless of whether a person identified himself as conservative or liberal, Republican or Democrat: the axiomatic assumption that the authorities are almost always right in whatever they do, and the uniform insistence that the authorities must always be obeyed.

    <snip>

    Rhodes noted that many others characterized Meyer as rude and obnoxious, and they considered him to be only a troublemaker and rabble rouser, someone who was "looking for trouble" and was "asking for it." To all this, Rhodes responded: No, I would say he is informed. She went on to say that given what has been transpiring in the United States for the last several years, and what continues to transpire today (none of which has been altered or even slowed down in any significant way by the Democrats whose virtues Rhodes still attempts to sell her listeners on), people who are informed tend to be agitated.

    Before you go on and on about Randi Rhodes being a liberal or this, that or the other.

    Just read the article. Then...

    Be good citizens. Follow orders. Hail Victory!

     
    #1 poncho, Sep 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2008
  2. Bro. Curtis

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    I've listened to enough of that woman to know she's a flake. You had me until you put her & Meyer in. Meyer got what he went there for. And Rhodes is as ill-informed as any other political pundit. Those two put the entire post in a suspect light.
     
  3. poncho

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    I agree. So does Glenn Greenwald.

    Rhodes made one good point. "
    people who are informed tend to be agitated." And only one good point.You aren't going to let a couple nitwits talk you into throwing the baby out with the bath water are you Bro? C'mon yer alot more intelligent, and informed than all that. What we have here is COINTELPRO all over again.

    Following up on this weekend’s extreme raids on various homes, at least 250 people were arrested here today in St. Paul, Minnesota. Beginning last night, St. Paul was the most militarized I have ever seen an American city be, even more so than Manhattan in the week of 9/11 — with troops of federal, state and local law enforcement agents marching around with riot gear, machine guns, and tear gas cannisters, shouting military chants and marching in military formations. Humvees and law enforcement officers with rifles were posted on various buildings and balconies. Numerous protesters and observers were tear gassed and injured. I’ll have video of the day’s events posted shortly.


    Perhaps most extraordinarily, Amy Goodman of Democracy Now — the radio and TV broadcaster who has been a working journalist for close to 20 years — was arrested on the street and charged with “conspiracy to riot.” Audio of her arrest, which truly shocked and angered the crowd of observers, is here. I just attended a Press Conference with St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman and Police Chief John M. Harrington and — after they boasted of how “restrained” their police actions were — asked about the journalists and lawyers who had been detained and/or arrested both today and over the weekend. They said they wouldn’t give any information about journalists who had been arrested today, though they said they believed that “one journalist” had been, and that she “was seemingly a participant in the riots, not simply a non-participant.” I’ll have video of the Press Conference posted shortly.


    SOURCE.


    I don't know much about this Meyers character but in my opinion Rhodes is a gatekeeper. Just between you and me, I'm not that much of a Democracy Now fan either. But I have to take notice when the government starts arresting journalists and raiding peoples homes and offices using "thought crimes" as a reason.


    This needs to be looked into Bro maybe I'm not the best person on this board to it but it would seem I'm the only here who will.
     
    #3 poncho, Sep 2, 2008
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  4. Bro. Curtis

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    As far as Ron Paul goes, I know his sticker on my car is a target. It may as well be a pot leaf, as far as most cops are concerned, and I do not doubt people are being arrested, and their property seized with no charges, I don't doubt it for a minute.

    I also, poncho my dear friend, do not doubt that a lot of folks went there to look for trouble, which is unfortunate, considering our guy has so many good things to say.....
     
  5. poncho

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    I have no doubt people went there looking for trouble either Bro. There are always going to be people who do that. I also have no doubt some of those folks causing trouble were provocateurs, planted there to cause trouble so the state might have an excuse for a crackdown. Do I have proof of this? No.

    But history shows governments do this in order to intimidate and control their populations. And history (COINTELPRO) shows our government is no different.
     
    #5 poncho, Sep 2, 2008
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  6. LeBuick

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    i think it's a shameful demonstration of peace from the free world. Here we encourage other nations to want democracy and they see this as the template. Nothing good can come from the demonstrations.
     
  7. poncho

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    It isn't demonstrations I have a problem with, healthy democracies should have them all the time. It's when the state tries to intimidate it's own citizens into "peaceful" subservience to the "authorities" that bothers me.

    BTW, the founders of this nation loathed the idea of a democracy. That's why they created a representative constitutional republic.

    "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep trying to decide what's for dinner".

    I also think it's a shame that "we" demand countries like China stop it's crackdowns on protesters while we crackdown on our own protesters. I believe that's called hypocrisy LeBuick.

    What should other nations think about us and "democracy" after being witness to that?

    I also believe we've gone past trying to encourage other nations to want democracy. We're at the point now of demanding they either adopt democracy or be invaded and occupied. I think that's a shame. But then I seem to be at odds with most people on most things around here.

    Finally (for now), here's a woman being pepper-sprayed at close range by a marching legion of police while standing on the side of the road holding a flower.

    (what a dishonorable act by an agent of the state wearing full body armor to mace a woman holding a flower, guess the little woman's flower made him fear for his life. In that case I say he's a coward and a disgrace to his uniform. Poncho)

    UPDATE IV: The Washington Post has a few more details on the arrest of Goodman and the two Democracy Now producers. In addition to them, a photographer for Associated Press was also arrested today while covering the protests (h/t Edward Champion). An AP spokesman said of the arrest: "covering news is constitutionally protected, and photographers should not be detained for covering breaking news." Democratic strategist and CNN commentator Donna Brazile was hit by pepper spray on her way into the Xcel Center.

    Just as was true for the despicable home raids this weekend, there will be no shortage of people defending all of this (browse through the comment section here to see many such people). The fact that there were some criminals engaged in some destructive acts (who, needless to say, should have been arrested), apparently means that whatever the Police do both before and afterwards is justifiable (just as the existence of some Terrorists justifies whatever the Government does in many people's minds).

    SOURCE.
     
    #7 poncho, Sep 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2008
  8. LeBuick

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    From what I heard they started interfering with people going to the convention, throwing rocks and burned a dumpster. I wasn't there but if that is so then the authorities should be commended for stopping that mob.

    It is not a matter of intimidating citizens into a peaceful demonstration, it's either peaceful or it needs to be stopped. I have a right to walk down the street without fear of a rock or someone trying to steal my credentials.
     
  9. poncho

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    With this kind of attitude amongst Americans I can understand why the state would use provocateurs. (read the history of COINTELPRO)

    You are correct on one point imo. It is not a matter of intimidating citizens into peaceful demonstration at all. It's a matter of control over the population and stopping any and all dissent against government policies.

    I won't go into it any further because it's late and...

    This kind of reaction has already been anticipated and addressed so I'll just post the address again.

    "Just as was true for the despicable home raids this weekend, there will be no shortage of people defending all of this (browse through the comment section here to see many such people). The fact that there were some criminals engaged in some destructive acts (who, needless to say, should have been arrested), apparently means that whatever the Police do both before and afterwards is justifiable (just as the existence of some Terrorists justifies whatever the Government does in many people's minds)."

    You lead me to believe you believe in democracy (and I assume freedom) one minute then the next act as though we should all live under some form of government where everyone should be punished for the misdeeds of a few? Seems kind of contradictory to me.
     
    #9 poncho, Sep 3, 2008
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  10. poncho

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    Bumperdoodlydoo
     
  11. LadyEagle

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    So are you suggesting anarchy?
     
  12. poncho

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    You've known me for how long now LE? I'm suggesting the same thing I always have...limited constitutional government and individual liberty. I suppose to the majority of today's "new" conservatives and "new" liberals that does sound like anarchy though. :tonofbricks:
     
    #12 poncho, Sep 3, 2008
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  13. poncho

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    Bump......
     

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