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Miracles Today

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gina B, Sep 22, 2003.

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  1. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Then, first off, I pointed out the differing views on the origin of the soul, accepted by various evangelical theologians, each case based on scripture. And, therefore, the term murder ought not to apply in every case. Given one of the views, what is inside the woman is a mass, and not a human soul.

    All I am saying is that we should allow for differing viewpoints and not be so dogmatic on one view only.

    On the other hand, I oppose the taking of human life under most circumstances, war being one exception, where one is defending himself another. It does not include state executions. Even in scripture, the state was given the responsibility for the death penalty. It was not an order by God indiscriminately.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #21 Jim1999, Sep 22, 2003
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Yes I know you gave all the classic liberal views of abortion being ok and I duly ignored you since I am not interested in liberal theology. If you don't want to be dogmatic and leave room open for other views, be my guest. Why don't you begin with my view that all abortion is murder.

    As far as the death penalty goes, perhaps you ought to read the book of Romans again. I am thinking of the chapter where it says that the state is God's authority to carry out justice. Read it real carefully. (Romans 13:1-5)

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #22 Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 22, 2003
  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    They are NOT liberal views. I made it clear they were sound fundamental evangelical Christian theologians.........

    Yes, the state is under God, but we are not in a Theocracy, and the state makes and modifies the laws. Thanks be to God, they did away with crucifixon and the death penalty for stealing a loaf of bread, and picking a pocket.

    Many of us do study the scriptures.no, wait, all my years have been spent playing tiddlewinks, cricket and jumping jacks. Pardon my cynicism; some of us did go to school too.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #23 Jim1999, Sep 22, 2003
  4. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Joseph, abortion certainly goes with the topic of life and death, but you're still missing the subject I'm trying to get at and I do not know how to make it any more clear.
    A person who is injured or sick, as in having a brain tumor is still a life.
    Here is the question. [bold]Why is it ok to prevent death but not prevent life? Shouldn't both be up to God's planning and timing alone and not interfered with?[/quote] This is not a question of abortion, although it is impossible to separate it as it is a life and death issue also.
    I'm asking you to think a little here, not to slam out an answer based on the emotions you feel at the second and without reading into the question more than is there.
    Phrased in an even more simple way: Are life and death both in God's hands, and why should we think we have the right to interfere with each of these or one of these?
    Gina
     
    #24 Gina B, Sep 22, 2003
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    You seem a bit angry, Jim.
     
    #25 Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 22, 2003
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Gina,

    I have already answered your questions. See my response to you above.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #26 Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 22, 2003
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    No, Joseph, I just get the impression that some Americans think they have the monopoly on truth and the rest of us are a bit yank (in the English sense..it means stupid).

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #27 Jim1999, Sep 22, 2003
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    And...?
     
    #28 Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 22, 2003
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Well, it has been fun and funny. I now need to go spend sometime with the miracle that God gave me a little over a month ago. See y'all later. I'll try to check back with you guys sometime tommorow if I can.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #29 Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 22, 2003
  10. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Your answer wasn't quite clear to me. You said they are BOTH in God's hands, are you also saying it's ok to interfere with both? It sounded like it.
    I don't see where abortion really makes a difference in this question. A person with a brain tumor or other problem with requires interferance with the life/death process is just as much a life as a child is. It doesn't pertain to this question WHY you're treating the person or whether another life dies in the process, think about the life and death of just one adult if that makes it easier on you.
    Is it ok to interfere with the process of death for Terri Schindler-Schiavo? Is it ok to NOT treat her medically?
    What about a person who chooses not to get treatment for cancer and would prefer to just go? Are they wrong to not seek treatment that would interfere with the process of death? Why is it ok for them to do that instead of just trust in God for a miracle?
    Are you attempting to say that as long as another life is not involved, it is ok to interfere with the process of life and death, but if another one is, the life or death of nobody involved should be interfered with?
    Since you believe in miracles, would you leave your children unvaccinated and trust that God will provide a miracle if he is exposed to one of the diseases these prevent? Why would you not depend on a miracle for this situation but would for another situation? Wouldn't you be guilty of causing death by not vaccinating were something to happen just as surely as if you'd had an abortion performed, or is inaction that causes death different than direct action? (btw I do vaccinate my kids, someone in the past heard me say I would not wish to be treated for cancer/leukemia and would have reservations about having my children treated in the same situation and assumed I wasn't having my children vaccinated, not sure where they made that connection, but I do have my children vaccinated, before anyone else flips out over false assumptions).
    Gina
     
    #30 Gina B, Sep 22, 2003
  11. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Faith:
    Baptist
    Miracles happen every day, everywhere. We just have to open our eyes to them.

    No, miracles like those written in the OT and NT don't happen all the time today, and they are not supposed to. Contrary to what is splashed all over TBN (The Blasphemy Network), God is not handing out jumbo portions of the gift of healings and miracles.

    I have seen people healed by the touch of God without outside intervention. And I have seen people healed through skilled surgeons and doctors. Which of these was of God? BOTH !!! All healing comes from God.

    A man falls 92 feet onto concrete, and gets up without a scratch. A baby falls from a seventh-floor window and is unharmed. A car flips end over end, flinging out the driver, who doesn't get a scratch. Miracles? Yes.

    We see them every day. Take a deep breath. The air you breathe is a miracle. Change the ratios of the gases in it and you will die. The ability to see is a miracle. With all our technology, we still cannot fully duplicate it.

    Just open your eyes.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
    #31 Trotter, Sep 22, 2003
  12. atestring

    atestring New Member

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    Taking a deep breath is not a miracle.
    Miracles occur when something occurs outside the realm of the natural. It is a natural response to take a deep breath Unless because of a disease such as emphizema would not allow the deep breath.
    The Bible is full of stories of miracles such as the parting of the Red Sea, iron swimming, time standing still etc. these things happened outside the normal progression of nature.
    Miralces still happen today but ordinarily taking a deep breath would not be considered a miracle.
     
    #32 atestring, Sep 25, 2003
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