Missing Verses in the KJV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Deacon, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. Deacon

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    Psalm 145 is an acrostic Psalm, each line starts with a letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
    What’s odd is that it’s missing the couplet for the letter “N” which would fit right between verse 13 and 14.

    In modern times the verse was found in only one Hebrew manuscript and noted by B. Kennicott in his work, Vetus Testamentum Hebraicum (1776-80, p142).

    Its existence in Biblical times is witnessed by 11QPs, the LXX and the Syriac Version.

    The missing verse reads:
    The LORD is faithful in all his words
    and kind in all his works.


    Here is the whole Psalm [I’ve bolded and underlined portions to show some of the structure of the psalm.]

    Psalm 145:1-18 (AV 1873)

    David’s Psalm of praise.

    (א) I will extol thee, my God, O king;
    And I will bless thy name for ever and ever.

    (ב) Every day will I bless thee;
    And I will praise thy name for ever and ever.

    (ג) Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised;
    And his greatness is unsearchable.

    (ד) One generation shall praise thy works to another,
    And shall declare thy mighty acts.
    (ה) I will speak of the glorious honour of thy majesty,
    And of thy wondrous works.

    (ו) And men shall speak of the might of thy terrible acts:
    And I will declare thy greatness.

    (ז) They shall abundantly utter the memory of thy great goodness,
    And shall sing of thy righteousness.

    (ח) The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion;
    Slow to anger, and of great mercy.

    (ט) The LORD is good to all:
    And his tender mercies are over all his works.

    (י) All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD;
    And thy saints shall bless thee.

    (כ) They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom,
    And talk of thy power;

    (ל) To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts,
    And the glorious majesty of his kingdom.

    (מ) Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
    And thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.


    MISSING LETTER – “N” [NUN]

    (ם) The LORD upholdeth all that fall,
    And raiseth up all those that be bowed down.

    (ע) The eyes of all wait upon thee;
    And thou givest them their meat in due season.

    (פ) Thou openest thine hand,
    And satisfiest the desire of every living thing.

    (צ) The LORD is righteous in all his ways,
    And holy in all his works.

    (ק) The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him,
    To all that call upon him in truth.

    (ר) He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him:
    He also will hear their cry, and will save them.

    (ש) The LORD preserveth all them that love him:
    But all the wicked will he destroy.

    (ת) My mouth shall speak the praise of the LORD:
    And let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.


    Rob
     
    #1 Deacon, Jun 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2007
  2. Keith M

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    It only makes sense that there is something missing. Otherwise it would mean the writer forgot to include one of the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. Yet there will probably be someone who argues the verse could not possibly have been in the original since it is not in most manuscripts.
     
  3. Hope of Glory

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    Or, they will argue that you're simply reading too much into it and it's just coincidence that you have the other letters, etc.
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    Psalm 145:13-14 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Thy kingdome is +an euerlasting kingdome:
    and thy dominion endureth throughout
    all generations.
    14 The Lord vpholdeth all that fall:
    and raiseth vp all those
    that bee bowed downe.

    Translator's Margin Note:
    +Hebr. a kingdome of all ages.
     
  5. 1611Bible

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    Proverbs 30:6

    This is in response to the allegation that the KJV is missing a verse in Psalm 145.
    I marvel at the absurdity of this claim, not only because of the "manuscript evidence" given to support it, (a Greek Old Testament, one version, 11QPS, and one Hebrew manuscript) but also because of the assumptions that you have to make that you simply cannot prove about what the original author may or may not have written. This kind of reasoning unfortuneately is the normal for textual critics of God's Words. I hope and pray the day will come when these people will submit to the Bible, and stop trying to correct and improve it, for their own sake.

    "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:6
     
  6. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Revelation 22:19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    There! Now I fell much better showing you that you're wrong...
     
  7. Ed Edwards

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    Proverbs 30:6 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Adde thou not vnto his words,
    lest he reproue thee,
    and thou be found a lyar.


    Thou hast blasphemed mine Bible by
    taking away an 'e', the blessed first letter of
    both my first and last names.
    Further thou hast taken a blessed
    'y' in 'lyar' and, Lo, thou hast changed it into
    a self-centered 'i' :(
     
  8. TCGreek

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    Is there going to be a KJVO only section in heaven?:thumbs:
     
  9. Deacon

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    God is gracious to us all.

    Welcome 1611Bible, please accept my apologies for the title, it was baiting.
    I regretted posting it too late to change it though.

    The problem isn’t just with the KJV but with the Masoretic text it was derived from.

    While the Masoretes were indeed meticulous in their care and transmission of God’s word they were not perfect.
    They could only preserve what had been handed down to them.
    Why even they recorded a form of variants within their sacred text.

    Our Scriptures didn’t just fall from the sky.
    Every translator has to make textual decisions about what text to use.
    Where there is a difference between the copies before him, the translator must choose between one or the other.
    I personally do not believe these choices are inspired: I believe the choices are fallible and open to discussion or debate among Christian brothers.

    I don’t think either Proverbs 30:6 or Revelation 22:19 applies here.

    Whether this verse belongs in this text or not, it was considered inspired by the early Christians who primarily used the Septuagint (LXX) AND the verse does not contain any errant doctrine (wouldn't you agree?).

    Many modern versions identify where these textual decisions were made.
    I think that is a most wise decision.

    Rob
     
    #9 Deacon, Jun 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2007
  10. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Most Messianic Jews with whom I associate hold the LXX in higher esteem than the Masoretic.
     
  11. npetreley

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    I can testify to that, as well. In fact, I think the LXX makes clear some passages that are otherwise very hard to understand. I noticed that first when checking Daniel in the LXX. I assume it's because the LXX translators were closer to the idioms in the language than we are.
     
  12. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    I told you someone would be along with a similar argument, btw.
     
  13. Hope of Glory

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    I like it also because I understand Greek. However, I did find one shortcoming, and it may be a shortcoming of the language itself, not the translation. I'm going to check it out with some other sources in a couple of weeks when I get time.
     
  14. Hope of Glory

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    You silly man! They're going to be the only ones in heaven, because they're the only ones who have the uncorrupted, non-perverted word of God.
     
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    This is not going to be a KJVO thread - return to topic or it will be closed.
     
  16. Hope of Glory

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    OK, so here's an on topic question (or few) that pertains specifically to the OP, and generally to other passages:

    It's easy to omit the words that we know don't belong, such as where we have a textual note that has been added into the text. But how should we look at verses or words that we believe have legitimate reason to be there, but are not?

    For example, if an older manuscript has a word, but the majority of later ones don't, and we have reason to trust the source of the older one.

    Or, as in the case of "born again" in John 3:5, in which there is reason to believe from context that it belongs, we have some later Greek mss that contain it, and we have reason to believe that the majority of the Western Text Form mss had it. Do we inlude it or not?

    In the OP, it's easy to see that something belongs there, but there is a minority of mss evidence for it.

    Do we include it?
     
  17. robycop3

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    1611bible:This is in response to the allegation that the KJV is missing a verse in Psalm 145.
    I marvel at the absurdity of this claim, not only because of the "manuscript evidence" given to support it, (a Greek Old Testament, one version, 11QPS, and one Hebrew manuscript) but also because of the assumptions that you have to make that you simply cannot prove about what the original author may or may not have written.


    That worx BOTH WAYS, ya know!


    This kind of reasoning unfortuneately is the normal for textual critics of God's Words. I hope and pray the day will come when these people will submit to the Bible, and stop trying to correct and improve it, for their own sake.

    I believe everyone here submits to the Bible. What mosta us DON'T submit to, however, is the false, man-made doctrine that God is limited in English to just one certain version. There's not one quark of Scripture, even in that one version, leading to such a conclusion.

    Speaking of missing Scriptures, what happened to "through Jesus Christ our Lord" in the KJV's Jude 25?
     
  18. Deacon

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    Sorry Rippon, I’ll correct that…

    "Translators have to make textual decisions about what text to use.
    Where there is a difference between the copies before them, the translators must choose between one or the other.
    I personally do not believe these choices are inspired: I believe the choices are fallible and open to discussion or debate among Christian peoples."

    See ya’ll that didn’t hurt much. :smilewinkgrin:

    Other acrostic psalms are:
    Psalm 9 [of the first 11 letters used, Daleth (D) is missing]
    Psalm 10 [the pattern follows Psalm 9, however it’s missing Mem (M), two other letters have been restored and two seem to be out of place.]
    Psalm 25 [the last verse isn’t in the acrostic pattern]
    Psalm 34 [missing one letter (L), Peh (P) is out of place at the end]
    Psalm 37 [complete]
    Psalm 111 [complete]
    Psalm 112 [complete]
    Psalm 119 [complete]
    Psalm 145 [Nun (N) missing in most Hebrew manuscripts]

    The most noted of course is Psalm 119, if you’ll look, many bibles note the name of the letter at the heading of the each paragraph.

    Rob
     
  19. Rippon

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    Or simply ...

    debate among Christians .
     
  20. Deacon

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    I thought I'd toss this into this thread.

    I'll be leading Adult Sunday School with this Praise Psalm.
    I'll book-end it with one of the more depressing psalms, #88 at a later date.

    Need: colored pencils, photo-copies of Psalm 145,

    Introduction
    The structure of the book of Psalms; Book V - Praise hymns.

    Date: A Psalm of David; no other discernable historic clues.

    What are some characteristics of the songs or hymns we sing?

    What are the three distinct groups/sets mentioned in this hymn?
    >>>Underline David’s actions.
    --------------Who is David’s King?
    --------------Are there any NT passages where David and the Christ/Messiah are identified as kings?

    >>>Underline the peoples actions.
    >>>Underline God actions/attributes.

    Look for repeated words and mark them.
    Notice the similar words in the verses and circle them.

    Structure: How would you divide the verses into stanzas.

    >>>Calls to Praise (vs 1-9); Grounds for praise (10-20)

    >>>Divine power and goodness


    Psalm 145 (ESV)
    1 A Song of Praise. Of David.
    I will extol you, my God /and/ (O) King, and bless your name forever and ever.
    2 Every day I will bless you and praise your name forever and ever.
    3 Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable.

    4 One generation shall commend your works to another (generation), and shall declare your mighty acts (great).
    5 On the glorious splendor of your majesty, and on your wondrous works, I will meditate.
    6 They shall speak of the might of your awesome deeds, and I will declare your greatness.

    7 They shall pour forth the fame of your abundant goodness and shall sing aloud of your righteousness.
    8 The Lord is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
    9 The Lord is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made.


    10 All your works (made) shall give thanks to you, O Lord, and all your saints shall bless you!
    11 They shall speak of the glory of your kingdom and tell of your power (great),
    12 to make known to the children of man your mighty (great) deeds, and the glorious splendor of your kingdom.
    13 Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and your dominion endures throughout all generations.

    [The Lord [God] is faithful in all his words and kind in all his works.]
    14 The Lord upholds all who are falling and raises up all who are bowed down.

    15 The eyes of all look to you, and you give them their food in due season.
    16 You open your hand; you satisfy the desire of every (all) living thing.

    17 The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works.
    18 The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.
    19 He fulfills the desire of those who fear him; he also hears their cry and saves them.
    20 The Lord preserves all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy.
    21 My mouth will speak the praise of the Lord, and let all flesh bless his holy name forever and ever.

    Rob
     
    #20 Deacon, Jul 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2007

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