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Missionaries vs Ministers

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Lorelei, Aug 3, 2001.

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  1. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Why is it ok for a woman to be a missionary, to travel across the globe and "teach" people (men included) about God, but it is NOT ok for a woman to "teach" men here at home?

    I know what the Bible says about usurping authority and teaching, yet we as Baptists seem to think that it only means here at home, not on foreign soil.

    Ideas?

    ~Lorelei
     
    #1 Lorelei, Aug 3, 2001
  2. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    You are asking the wrong person.

    It is my belief that as a Christian disciple, that I am commanded to go and speak, share, preach, communicate the gospel to all creatures, man, woman, boy, girl.


    So, I wholeheartedly say yes, it is okay for a woman to be a missionary.

    Why, you ask? Why is it okay for women to go as missionaries and not be ministers? I didn't realize it wasn't okay that we minister. I minister. I am compelled by the gospel I believe to minister.

    [ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: SaggyWoman ]
     
    #2 SaggyWoman, Aug 3, 2001
  3. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Ok, when does ministering turn into the "teaching and usurping authority"? When is it ok for a woman to teach and when is it not?
     
    #3 Lorelei, Aug 4, 2001
  4. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    I might clarify that I do not feel that being a minister or missionary has to usurp any male's authority. . . .
     
    #4 SaggyWoman, Aug 4, 2001
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Lorelie,

    The reason it is ok for women to go around to the other side of the world and minister but not here is because then we don't have to be challenged with it here in America. We don't have to acknowledge the fallacy of our misinterpretation of scripture caused by cultural 20th century sin.


    Just my opinion,

    Joseph
     
    #5 Joseph_Botwinick, Aug 4, 2001
  6. Joy

    Joy New Member

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    If a woman is seeking to pastor a church on the mission field, that is usurping authority and would be just as wrong as it is in the States.

    There are many other jobs and ministries that ladies go do on the field. Some go to teach the missionaries' children, some teach language, some work specifically with the women, others are nurses or doctors on the field.
     
    #6 Joy, Aug 4, 2001
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    More than 80% of all baptist missionaries are not pastors. This allows women to fulfill roles just as men do:<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Teaching at all levels<LI>Medical Clinic, Hospital, Dental<LI>Children's Ministry (like Saggy)<LI>Translation Work<LI>Schools for missionary children<LI>Relief/Humanitarian efforts<LI>Music ministries<LI>Evangelism and Outreach<LI>Physical ministries<LI>Office and clerical work<LI>Bookstores[/list]You get the picture. Apart from pastoring there are many roles that missionaries play -- and ladies can do all of them well, some of them better than a man could!
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Aug 4, 2001
  8. KeeperOfMyHome

    KeeperOfMyHome New Member

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    I agree with Dr. Bob that evangelism is a Biblically permissiable ministry for a woman on the mission field. I do not see a woman witnessing to and winning a man as usurping authority.

    I would have to say though that teaching men would be questionable.
     
    #8 KeeperOfMyHome, Aug 4, 2001
  9. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    I agree with most of what you all have said too. I DO believe that women can be missionaries, that was not my point. I guess I just want the chalk line drawn on the field. When does ministering turn into the "Ministry"? When does "sharing" the gospel turn into "teaching"? When does giving advice turn into "authority"? Is it ONLY wrong for a woman to be ordained, yet it is alright for her to DO all the same things that an ordained person does?

    1 Timothy 2:12
    But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence"

    I guess I need the words "teach" and "usurp authority" defined!

    ~Lorelei
     
    #9 Lorelei, Aug 5, 2001
  10. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    You may need ordained defined, too, because, in a very real sense, I have been ordained. . . by God, to do a specific task. . .
     
    #10 SaggyWoman, Aug 5, 2001
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    In a very real sense, we have all been commissioned to do the following:

    1. Go into all the world
    2. make disciples of all men
    3. baptize them in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit
    4. teach them to obey all that Jesus commanded us

    This is for all Christians, male and female...but where do we get this idea? Matthew 28:18-20.

    The only way you can justify women not being allowed to teach, disciple, witness, minister, baptize others (men and women) is if you say that the Great Commission is only for men. If that is true, then women need to stop reading applying most of the Bible to themselves...because it is constantly calling all Christians (male and female) in to the service and ministry of the Lord. Minister are servants of the Lord and the Church. They are not tyrants. When we realize this, I believe we will throw away much of the false interpretations of certain scriptures that were perpetrated by big egoed men with a small view of who God is.

    Joseph
     
    #11 Joseph_Botwinick, Aug 5, 2001
  12. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    This is what I am getting at. I know that women have thier place in serving. I know that we are called to witness, to spread the gospel, to minister. What Joseph said "sounds" nice and makes sense, but...this is what I can never find an appropriate answer for.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JBotwinick:
    When we realize this, I believe we will throw away much of the false interpretations of certain scriptures that were perpetrated by big egoed men with a small view of who God is.
    Joseph    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Joseph, please tell me what exactly was meant by this verse?


    1 Timothy 2
    11
    "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12
    But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    13
    For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
    14
    And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
    15
    Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

    How was this misinterpreted? If women can lead, if they can teach, then why was this written? It even explains WHY she is not to have authority over the man. I am not trying to argue, I sincerely do not know how one can say that women can teach men in light of this verse. At least no one has explained it to me. How can they can do anything but be silent.

    There are many that would agree with me that a woman should not teach men, and then I wonder how can they justify the roles such as missionary that woman CAN do. Some say a woman can lead the music, but not if she has been to seminary and been ordained to so. What makes it right and what makes it wrong?

    Maybe I am trying too hard and it is as simple as it is written here. But what is that magical line that seperates what we are ALL called to do and what roles have "authority". Exactly what authority does the pastor have over us????

    One pastor explained it this way. If you are coming to hear ME preach then you are coming for the wrong reason. You should be coming to hear the Holy Spirit speak, and he will not limit the Holy Spirit by saying that the Holy Spirit can not speak through a woman. I don't want to limit the Holy Spirit either, however, God's Word is infallible and by saying that a woman can do those things wouldn't that be calling God's Word a lie???

    I want to follow God's Word, I want to be pleasing to Him. I want to be a good witness and let His light shine through me, and I truly want to study and show myself approved. In doing so, I bring questions here, not to argue, but to try to understand. I sometimes think I am studying too many different topics at once among reading on my own. It's just that each piece of scripture just jumps out at me and makes me study more. The problem is, I sometimes end up with more questions then answers!

    (sorry for the long explanation but I seem to get misinterpreted myself lately and I just want you all to know WHY I am inquiring)

    ~Lorelei
     
    #12 Lorelei, Aug 6, 2001
  13. Missionary to Mexico

    Missionary to Mexico New Member

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    Hello everyone,

    It seems like there has been a pretty interesting discussion about women missionaries. Since I am one I thought I could give my two cents worth! First, the job of a missionary is to start a church. Since a woman cannot be a Biblical pastor, (I Tim.), a woman cannot be a Biblical missionary if she goes alone to an area where there is not already a pastor of a church. Women can be the wives of missionaries, or they can go single and work as "helpers" in the church of the missionary. If any of you women are really interested in being missionaries I invite you to come visit us here in Puebla and see what a missionary really does! We arrived here about three months ago. Every day my husband, myself and six month old baby go door to door in our city passing out tracts, inviting people to our church, and trying to win them to Christ. My husband speaks with the men and I speak to the women. After people accept Christ we try to hold weekly Bible studies in their homes teaching them Basic Bible doctrines. Currently we are discipling four families. Our city is an extremely Catholic city but God is blessing. I am very glad to be serving the Lord here in Mexico.

    God Bless, Missionary to Mexico
     
    #13 Missionary to Mexico, Aug 26, 2001
  14. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Missionary to Mexico:
    Hello everyone,

    Since a woman cannot be a Biblical pastor, (I Tim.), a woman cannot be a Biblical missionary if she goes alone to an area where there is not already a pastor of a church.     <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's the heart of the discussion, and I would argue that I Timothy in no way precludes a woman from being a pastor.

    Joshua
     
    #14 Rev. Joshua, Aug 26, 2001
  15. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Missionary to Mexico,

    Thanks so much for the information. I was not aware of how things were done. I will keep you all in my prayers for the wonderful work you are doing! [​IMG]

    CJoshuaV,

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CJoshuaV:


    That's the heart of the discussion, and I would argue that I Timothy in no way precludes a woman from being a pastor.

    Joshua    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Can you back that argument up with scripture, or at least explain what has brought you to that conclusion?

    ~Lorelei
     
    #15 Lorelei, Aug 27, 2001
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