Mixed Swimming - Acceptable or Not?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by mnw, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. mnw

    mnw
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    My wife and I have a problem with mixed swimming, but more and more it seems like we are a minority and made to feel like we're strange because we will not participate in it.

    Now, the very parents who will not allow their teenage daughter wear mini-skirts for modesty reasons will freely allow them to wear much less when they go swimming - Whats the difference?!!??

    Many churches where I am will arrange beach events for their teens and I know at some point I will be put in a hard situation. Some other church youth group will invite ours to meet them at the beach for fellowship and I will have to decline.

    If you feel mixed smimming is okay, what is your reasoning?

    If you are against it, do you find much opposition?
     
  2. bapmom

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    we're against it, too, but we don't see much opposition because our church is like-minded on that issue.

    I didn't grow up this way, but when I was a kid I never heard any justification of mixed swimming. It was just accepted.
     
  3. Dale-c

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    I mostly agree with what you are saying but I would like to point something out for your consideration.

    Is mixed swimming wrong?
    No it isn't. There is no prohibition in the Bible to men and women swimming together.

    Is it wrong for girls to wear immodest clothes around men they are not married to?
    Yes.

    Is it wrong for a man to look at the "nakedness" of a woman.
    Yes, though how much is acceptable will vary from person to person.

    So, instead of teaching that mixed swimming is wrong, teach your kids that lust and immodest clothing are arong, AT ANY TIME.

    If you are not careful you can teach your kids legalism and in the future when you are not around, they may be confronted with a situation where there is no immodest dress, but they would say now because of the "rule"
    Or, more likely, they would involve themselves in a totally unrelated activity that would be just as bad or worse, but they wouldn't no better because they had only been taught rules and not principle.

    Does that make sense?

    BTW, for the most part, I am opposed to mix swimming in the way it is usually done.
     
  4. Rachel

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    I don't see anything wrong with it. It's always good to have adults around too, of course.
     
  5. Dale-c

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    DO you have a problem with women wearing clothes that are immodest?
     
  6. Gib

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    Women can swim modestly.
     
  7. drfuss

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    My wife grew up in a church that prohibited mixed swimming. She was one of the few girls in that church that did not have to get married. Girls in that church couldn't go to movies, dance, eat in a resturant that served acholic beverages, no television, etc. So guess what, nature took its course on dates since there was nothing else to do.

    Many people today realize what the problem was in those days.

    With what is on TV, in the movies, Bill Clinton's affairs, etc., mixed swimming is considered insignificant by most christians.
     
  8. faithgirl46

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    I dnon't blame you for not letting your daughter wear mini skirts.
    Concerning mixed swimming, I see nothing wrong with it.
    Faithgirl
     
  9. Dale-c

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    Yes they can, and so mixed swimming is not wrong.
     
  10. Dale-c

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    There is nothing wrong with it. BUt if girls are wearing things that make minikirts modest....then you have a problem.
     
  11. Sister Robin

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    From a different perspective: I grew up living at the beach every summer. My parents mananged a hotel at Myrtle. We were never told there was anything wrong with mixed swimming, and wearing bathing suits was perfectly acceptible. Of course back then, the bathing suits covered much more than they do today!

    I had never thought much about it until recently. A friend's daughter was molested by a deacon/youth leader at a pool party! (He is no longer there). And the more I grow in Christ, the more modest I have become over the years. Today, my sister asks me to go to the pool with her like we've always done... I won't go without a cover-up. I just feel too awkward or "immodest" walking around dressed (or not dressed) that way.

    So... in my world, it was foreign to even hear any opposition to it. It was just the norm. But now, I'm not so comfortable with it.
     
  12. Dale-c

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    But see, it is the immodesty you have a problem with, not the mixed swimming itself right?
     
  13. J.D.

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    Hello MNW, I've had a similar experience. When I moved to the northeast after living in the south all my life, I joined a church I thought had the same views as the one I was in down south. Boy was I wrong!

    The church hosted a pool party for the youth. I stood my ground and refused to participate, and I'm glad I did. Many church people came up to me some time later and told me they were glad I made my stand and they always thought there was a double standard somewhere. Girls can't wear short-shorts, but they can wear bikinis? What's that?

    If you want to know if swimwear for girls is appropriate, then just ask the boys - if they tell you what they really think. And you men know it's true.

    On the morning the pastor announced the pool party during the SS assembly, I went to my SS class where in were my fifteen year old daughter and the pastor's fifteen year old son. The pastor's brash son unashamedly said to my daughter "I can't wait to see you in a swimsuite!" As I was drawing back my fist to knock him out, she retorted back "you will NEVER see me in a swimsuit!" It was the proudest moment of my parental career. I didn't feel the need to knock him out after that.

    The pastor is now divorced and living with a married woman that came to the pool party to be "ministered" to. The boy is in prison.

    Preachers shouldn't mince words when it comes to modesty, but he shouldn't be brutal either. I stood up to teach my current church one time and I said "Christian women do not want to make themselves objects of lust. When you reveal the skin or shape of your breasts, torso, hips, backside, or thighs, to men, you cause them to lust and God will be far from their minds". I've never had to say a single word about modesty since. And I don't have to be specific like some preachers do (don't wear this, don't wear that.

    I am greatful to God that I can say there's not a single young lady in our church that you would catch in a swimsuite, and swimsuits have never been directly mentioned here.

    However, I think it's a mistake to assume that because a young lady dresses in a modest way, even if she does so of her OWN convictions, that she will not get into trouble in other areas. Pastors and parents need to help girls understand what's going on in their bodies when hormones are raging and they are overwhelmed with a sense that they are "in love". It's important for fathers to show their love toward their daughters so that the girls have a sense of security - that they don't have to "find" love, because they already have it at home with daddy.

    And if nature overcomes, there's no shame in marraige - it is honorable in all, and it is better to marry than to burn.
     
  14. Milady

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    Great reply JD! DITTO from me!
    Milady
     
  15. DeeJay

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    There is a difference between dressing appropriate to swim and dressing to intentenonaly show off your body. A full peice swim suit is not inappropriate. A bikini is because it is ment to show the body.

    Boys will look at girls no matter what they wear. So the problem is not swiming it is girls themselfs, with all their bumps and curves. I think the only solution is to put them into full burkas.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    After all that would be the most modist clothing and therefor the right thing to do. All of you that let your women wear non-burka clothing are just immodist. :saint:

    I am ready to defend my pro-burka position, useing the same argument you are useing against swiming.
     
  16. faithgirl46

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    The problem I have with mini skirts is that they can lead a guy to think a girl is easy or worse. I used to swim laps and there were men and women there.
    Faithgirl
     
  17. bapmom

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    I believe that realistically we all realized what the original poster intended by "mixed swimming". I think far too often we nitpick at words with each other here, when we know full well what the person meant.

    That being said, I agree completely that we must teach our children the principle of modesty so that they can apply it in all areas of their life. That doesn't mean that Im not going to also tell them that they cannot wear a bathing suit in front of a male they are not married to. I should hope that everyone here would have the good sense to teach their children the reasonings behind our rules.....but I guess its a good thing to remind ourselves of.

    And any girl who thinks that a one-piece bathing suit is modest is fooling herself. That's like saying "my coffee doesn't have any creamer in it, I only put in one scoop." (Quote from my hubby)

    You're right, ladies can swim modestly. We do it all the time. We forget too that men need to be modest as well.
     
  18. J.D.

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    Hello DeeJay, I am for burkas too but my wife refuses to get in one of them. Infidel, that woman!

    Seriously though, you are right, the male will see what he wants to see, even through a burka. Since you can't stop it, go ahead and issue every male a subscription to Playboy mag at birth? Well that's silly, but so is your analogy.

    It's difficult at best for a man to not lust after women. All the more reason the women shouldn't be helping them do it. And there is a difference between HAVING a shape, and SHOWING a shape; between HAVING skin, and SHOWING skin. Is there not?
     
  19. thjplgvp

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    Modesty is prompted by the Holy Spirit and not legislated. A lady or man is at liberty to dress how they please but their presentation of themselves to others will tell if they are representing themselves or another.

    Since most youth are unmarried they represent themselves first and have little regard for how they represent Christ in modesty. I am sure this is due in part to maturity certainly, but truly their focus is on 'me' as in look at me. For that reason I used to teach a lesson every year to our youth on ‘lines’ not standards but the natural lines formed by the body and snug clothing. It usually brought the usual grins, finger pointing and bowed heads within the youth department but generally speaking it also helped them to understand they were to dress to please Christ and not to meet a set of standards (you can dress to meet the dress standards and still be immodest) in the youth department and we had very strict standards but we seldom had to enforce them and never at the risk of first time embarrassment to a youth.

    Once a youth or adult truly understands whom they represent their idea of modesty is heightened considerably. As an example years ago before I got saved when the heat came my shirt was removed, today I am embarrassed if someone shows up unexpectedly and catches me inside my home with out a shirt. While my upbringing remained the same my understanding of who Christ is and who I am in Christ changed. As an ambassador of Christ I ask myself who do I represent? When I represent me I dress how I would and if the world doesn't like it they don't have to look. When I dress as an ambassador of Christ I want to be clean and modest and my modesty is based on my understanding of modesty and not someone else’s idea of modesty.

    You don’t have to teach against swimming but you are obligated to teach clear guidelines of modesty and why we are to be modest. Too often we believe our youth unable to understand the real reasons for doing things and we end up insulting their intelligence and underestimating their willingness to respond to Christ in a God honoring way. If they have been taught correctly you would not have to worry about the church sponsoring a swim party because they would not go anyway.

    Rules without reason will equal chaos therefore tell them why.
     
  20. DeeJay

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    You are right not allowing your daughters and wifes to wear swimsuits. But alowing them to wear clothing that shows off their bodys like shirts and pants is only a little better.

    THe result is the same, men looking with lust. It is like saying you can half sin. Then only solution is the full protection a burka offers.

    I dont see why it is silly, it is logical according to the arguments made here.
     

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