MMF - Christian Hip Hop?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by MeliChaCha, Jun 14, 2002.

  1. MeliChaCha

    MeliChaCha
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    I'm new to the board and haven't read too much, but I just wanted to get a feel for where y'all stand on this...

    I love music. ALL kinds of music, which includes rock, rap, world music, gospel, etc. I personally think we should all be able to worship the Lord with the type of music we choose so long as the right message is being conveyed and the right inspiration is there (Jesus, of course!). I think if God gave us the talent we should use it for the right reasons, and what could be more right than praising Him?! With that said, do you think there's anything wrong with Christian hip hop (groups like GRITS - which means Grammatical Revoloution In The Spirit - Gospel Gangstaz, etc.)? I'm not saying this should replace traditional Christian music, but rather as a suppliment and good healthy entertainment (in contrast to a lot of the rap you find out there in the secular market).

    Thoughts? [​IMG]

    - meli -

    [ September 14, 2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]
     
  2. Revolt

    Revolt
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    I totally agree with you! In fact I would go as far as to say if we were trying to reach a certain group of people we should use the music of their culture to try and reach them. After all the music in hymns is nothing more than rewritten bar tunes :eek:
     
  3. MeliChaCha

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    I totally agree with you! In fact I would go as far as to say if we were trying to reach a certain group of people we should use the music of their culture to try and reach them. After all the music in hymns is nothing more than rewritten bar tunes :eek: </font>[/QUOTE]My first reply wasn't from a detractor! Yaaaaaaaay! :D

    - meli -
     
  4. Aaron

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    In worship, the desire is to please the object of our worship. So the question is, how does God want us to worship Him?

    Is God pleased with "any type of music," and how do you know?

    BTW: The notion that the old hymns were rewritten bar tunes is false.

    Click here.
     
  5. Son of Consolation

    Son of Consolation
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    MeliChaCha, was that a trick question? Sort of trying to find out where we stand and then pounce upon us with the correct anwer?! You certainly are not serious about the above list of "music" (and I use the term "music," loosely), are you? ;)
     
  6. MeliChaCha

    MeliChaCha
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    MeliChaCha, was that a trick question? Sort of trying to find out where we stand and then pounce upon us with the correct anwer?! You certainly are not serious about the above list of "music" (and I use the term "music," loosely), are you? ;) </font>[/QUOTE]I am most certainly NOT joking, sir!

    I'm not talking about using gospel rap in worship service specifically, but I am talking about it being a suppliment - a good thing that gets the word out about the Lord and a way to bring dignity back to an art that's lots face due to some less than noble artists (Eminem, Lil' Kim, the list goes on...).

    Are you judging all hip hop on the stereotypical image of thugs running around in gangs and menacing the community? I mean, what part of Manhattan are you from? Do you work any with teens in the area? I'm from an urban area just outside NYC and I have to tell you that this music has helped reach some inner city kids who may never have given the Lord a chance in their lives. Kids who feel like they have nothing have come to realize that they do have something and someone to turn to in Jesus Christ and they hear this music and feel good - they can celebrate the fact that they have God's love (instead of listening to other secular rap which I admit can be pretty trashy). The fact is that God does NOT live in a cultural vacum! He created us all, gave us all little cultural quirks and talents, and gives us te power to use them -- it's only natural that we use these things to shout out our thanks to the creator! If we're using this music to praise His name and it's giving kids a cultural outlet that they feel even more comfortable expressing themselves through, then that's something we should encourage and thank God for!

    You say you use the term "music" loosely... Have you ever listened to contemporary hip hop and R&B? This isn't angry screaming rap - this is music you can't help but move to! Hon, it ain't country music... but this is music that is a growing and prospering culture that stems from spoken word poetry, motown, jazz, and blues. You judge hip hop, you're passing judgement on its roots. Do NOT pass judgement on the entire hip hop movement because of some bad apples in the barrel. Maybe you say you don't personally enjoy it, but did you ever really give it a chance? Listen to the lyrics? I'm not saying go out and buy every Christian rap CD on the market, but give a little listen -- you may hear something you didn't think you'd hear!

    On that note, I have to repeat what I said in another post...
    Let's push your judgement a little further (let me play a little devil's advocate here)... If you say Christian hip hop is bad, then you must think the same of traditional Christian musics in other countries that don't abide to your personal agenda - so Christian Salsa in Puerto Rico, Cuba, and more heavily Latino/a populated areas must be just plain evil, as well as Christian Plena, Bomba, Merengue, Bachata, Cumbia... the list goes on. No?

    Starts to get a little ludicrous after a while doesn't it?

    Is it just hip hop which has been demonized? Do you feel the same about Christian Rock? Do you have a list of approved Christian artists? Who decides what's good or bad in your eyes?

    The only judge is the Lord! He knows us best - he knows our strengths, weaknesses, and out intentions. I refuse to believe the Lord would deny the praise and admiration of people who compose a song for him, write a poem for him, or (and here's the shocker) kick a freestyle rap for him if it's with the right reasons and the right inspiration.

    And remember... that "traditional" music was once new and different, too. ;)

    But that's just my $.02. :confused:

    - meli -

    [ June 15, 2002, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: MeliChaCha ]
     
  7. Revolt

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    thanks for the link aaron did you also know that martin luther hated jews and has been called by mant the john the baptist of hitler.

    Thats the kind of guy I want to write my music.
    (the above statement is what is typically refered to as sarcasm)
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Revolt,

    I would be more critical of my sources if I were you. What the unbelieving Jews called Martin Luther is of no consequence. They also called John the Baptist a demoniac, and they called Jesus a glutton and a winebibber.

    I'd say Martin Luther is in pretty good company.

    I merely posted some evidence to rebutt your fallacious assertions about the origins of the melodies for the old hymns.

    Aaron
     
  9. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    Actually, "Jesus Loves the Little Children" is set to an Irish rebel song called "God Save Ireland."

    "God save Ireland
    Say the heroes
    God save Ireland
    Say we all
    Whether on the scaffold high
    Or the battlefield we die
    Makes no difference when
    For Ireland dear we fall"

    Mike
     
  10. Molly

    Molly
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    Revolt,
    I think you should show your proof on these far out accusations about somone like Martin Luther. You said it,you need to prove it if you are going to say. Flippant remarks about very biblically sound men or music do not show me or prove anything to me. In fact,it is hard to respect these remarks from someone who has not studied these things....it sounded good when you heard it and it supports what you think about music so you speak it. I would be somewhat more cautious about what I say....
     
  11. Revolt

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    Here is an actual qute of Martin Luthers at the end of his life. I wont give you a link because trust me you can find this in a # of credible places christian, jewish and secular.

    I also suggest you read the book "our hands are staind with blood" by Dr Brown.

    What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blaspemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must pratice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengenance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

    First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly - and I myself was unaware of it - will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

    Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

    Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)

    Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuternomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Thoses villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the righ to teach.

    Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).

    Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.

    Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting
     
  12. Revolt

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    Molly you can say that I have never studied these things but I have spent a great deal of time studying the terrible things that have happened to Jews by people who bear the name of Christ.

    just go to any search engine and type in martin luther was anti semitic and see what comes up.

    I also suggest the book our hands are stained with blood for you to
     
  13. Aaron

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    And yet, you still have not proven that the old hymns were accompanied by adopted bar tunes.

    First of all, you have done violence to Luther's statements, wrenching them from their historical and semantic contexts. Said without the proper preface these things sound harsh and inflamatory to a largely uneducated public. It was very irresponsible of you. You handled this piece like a novice not thinking of the consequences and how others would be affected.

    For that I will close this thread, but not without a brief reply. Then, if you wish, we can continue this discussion in another forum.

    First of all, Judaism exists on one main tenet. That is that Christ has NOT come in the flesh. According to St. John, this is anti-Christ teaching. Christ called those teachers children of the Devil. St. Paul said the judaizers infiltrating the church should have been castrated. Luther was not near harsh enough in expressing his sentiments about it, for it is impossible for a man to hate that teaching as much as God hates it.

    The church exists for one thing only. The testimony of Jesus Christ. So you see how Judaism strikes at the very foundation of faith.

    And when Luther lashes out at Judaism, he strikes out against it as a creed, and not as a race, for there are those who are Jewish by race, yet Christian by creed.

    Also, you must realize that the church in Luther's day was much like it was in the first centuries. It was infantile and was newly delivered from the Romish heresies which borrowed much of their pomp from law of Moses. So soon out of the church of Rome, they would be so easily beset by the diabolical, blasphemous vomitus of Judaism which taught, much like the Catholic Church, that righteousness and salvation was a work of the law.

    That will have to suffice for now. If you want to continue this discussion in another forum, let me know, but the music forum is not the place for it.
     

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