MMF - christian rock is evil

"Despite your refusal to accept the fact, there are certain facial expressions that are proud and arrogant, and conversly there are certain facial expressions that communicate humility. And the expressions are cross cultural."

Aaron- Specifically- what artists show these "proud" expressions"?

UNP, Adam

 

Aaron,

You've got me by the tail??? How?

The verse in question has nothing to do with facial expressions!

Every commentary and lexicon I went to says that it's attitude and not a facial expression.

Remember that the Bible says that man looks at the outward appearance but God looks at the heart

I don't care if you're Robert DeNiro, your point is still moot. You were wrong, period.

Now get over it and get on with your life.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I know Christian music when I hear it, & I hear it at my church <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess your church is the only place to hear christian music. So does that mean you don't listen to christian music anywhere else?
It seems to me you like to judge others for not living to your standards. And since neither position on this is solidly biblical(bible doesn't say one way or another what type of christian music to listen too) then your standards need to be just that, yours. Not everone elses. Your personal convictions are yours, not everyone elses. A personal conviction is not a bible doctrine that is to be taught as biblical.

Since the bible doesn't even say anything about christian music, why not just let each person decide for themselves what type of chritisn music they wanr to listen too?

 

Mr. Curtis

Obviously your church perfers softer music, nothing wrong with that, our church perfers a more contemperary service and I too am thankful for that since that is what helps me to grow and obviously others because they get much out of it too.

Smoke and Aaron

I'm a bit confused on the argument of expressions and music here.

Karen

 

Hi Karen,

Don't feel too bad, I don't get it, either.

Aaron was trying to make the point that all rock music is bad regardless of the intent behind it by citing Prov 6:17, which says that God hates a "proud look".

His point was that it doesn't matter what the intent of "the look" is, God condemns it and he insisted that that verse was talking about the physical act of making a facial expression.

The problem is that in an attempt to follow up on it, I went to a couple of different Bible commentaries and lexicons and every one of them that commented on the verse confirmed that it was, indeed, speaking about the attitude that would cause someone to look down on others and not the facial expression, itself.

So, Aaron's point becomes moot because he is starting with a faulty premise and what it has to do with whether or not rock is bad, I have no idea.

Mike

 

No, no, I think what he's doing is countering our argument that the Bible does not specify which styles are good or bad. So what he's saying is "we;;, the Bible condemns a 'proud look' but doesn't specify what that is", so from that you can safely say all rock is bad, without any direct biblical support. It hinges on its supposed "sensuality", but this still does not prove where exactly the line is. Some rock is like that, but people feel just eliminate the [back] beat, and there, that's it. But they ignore that the issue is alot more complex than that.

No, in answer to his question:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You keep mentioning "misinterpreting" random beats to be a rock beat. What are you talking about? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That the "proof" the beat was detrimental to the heart (using lab mice) was based on random beats, not an organized "rock" rhythm. The finding was quickly snatched up and applied to rock, even though it was not rock at all.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by redwhitenblue:


Smoke and Aaron

I'm a bit confused on the argument of expressions and music here.

Karen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think if you go to my post of Oct. 27 on page 5 the matter will clear itself up.

We in the anti-rock camp are demanded to produce a straightforward, element by element description of good or evil music in the Bible. The (faulty) premise being that something "so important" to God would be spelled out point blank in the Bible.

I have shown that something that God hates is described in the Bible (a proud look) yet there is no description of what a proud look looks like. In fact, we can read facial expressions very well without any training whatsoever in non-verbal communication. My question is "How?" And it is a question Smoke wants to avoid at all costs.


The point being that it is the same with music. Music communicates moods and attitudes, and those moods and attitudes are easily discerned by those who listen to them. It has only been in the last 20 years that anyone anywhere would even dare to postulate that music was neutral and the only thing that matters is what it means to "you."


Smoke,

What does the text say? It says proud look. Pride is communicated primarily through facial expressions. God hates evil communications.

 

Aaron,

No one is arguing that the text says "a proud look". The problem is that it was not originally written in English and some words and phrases translate awkwardly.

The Bible also desciribes God as being like a mother hen and having wings in the Old Testament and Jesus repeats this by saying that He longs to protect Jerusalem under His wings like a mother hen would protect her chicks.

Aaron, does this mean that God is a chicken?

All I can tell you is that upon deeper inspection of this verse, the original language confirms what I said in the first place.

If you can show me that it doesn't, go for it. Until then, you're wrong.

Mike

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

Well, if God hates a proud look, then aren't preachers evil then as well. In fact, anyone that stands in front of a crowd after a successful venture. We are all guilty of pride. Does that mean god hates us all? I'd suspect not.

 

Aaron,
I have a daughter who has a real problem with "a proud look" Whenever we are at church and people come up and talk to her, she looks down her nose, gets this serious look as if she is smelling something bad, and will look around as if disinterested. So tell me, does God hate that look on her face, or would it have to be accompanied by a proud attitude. See, she's 2 months old, so I haven't taught her how to really be proud and snooty yet (I am working on it though) I don't know of any way to describe it other than a proud look. The two cannot be separated, a "proud look" refers to the attitude combined with the look, not the contortions of the facial muscles independantly.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by superdave:
Aaron,
The two cannot be separated, a "proud look" refers to the attitude combined with the look, not the contortions of the facial muscles independantly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I agree totally. I had to stand on the "look" so strongly lest some cast off the "look" as irrelevant and "neutral".

 

What if a band doesn't tour like Alan Parsons? Is it alright then?

 

still not understanding your point aaron

karen

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by redwhitenblue:
still not understanding your point aaron

karen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nevermind. You had to board this train at the station.

 

I think eggplants are poisonous. That evil purple hue just looks diabolical, I can't help but believe it.
House cats are obviously from the devil. They have claws and fangs and eat blood and see in the dark, etc. All Cats Go To Hell.
Now, about Canadians.....

 

I think I see your point, a good one too.

 

All y'all are wrong and so is the eggplant!

Sorry, just wanted to jump in before it was locked.
da Gina

 

Why not bring the topic back to its original subject: Is Christian rock music evil? Christian rock is a genre of music that is widely reflected by shallow and even sometimes ungodly music and lyrics. There may be some good lyrics, but they are the exception, not the norm. Take for example Carmen, as analyzed by Peter Masters:

In a sketch before the song "Are You the One?" Carman portrays the Lord Jesus Christ and John the Baptist as two dim-witted cousins, scratching their heads and pondering their respective "ministries." Although the Scriptures tell us very little about the childhood days of either Jesus or John, Carman sets out on a make-believe journey to show how they may have acted.

Jesus is portrayed as a proud young man with His "Messiah-type walk" which Carman demonstrates to his delighted, cheering audience. Carman then goes on to describe the beginning of John's ministry;

" ... They grow up and go their separate ways, and one day John comes back on the scene dressed in camel hair, eating bugs. You know, little locusts, grasshoppers, y'know, cockroaches ..." (Carman does a little dance step here, snickering, 'La Cucarocha, La Cucarocha...")

Carman continues this tasteless mockery of a man the Lord had great respect for (Matthew 11:11) by portraying John as a power hungry fool who wanted to build a big church and name it after himself -- Baptist Church!

According to Carman, when John's disciples were seeking confirmation that Jesus is indeed the Christ, they said, " ... You know. your CRAZY COUSIN, John the jailbird, you know that eats bugs and stuff".

No matter how sincere Carman is in his lyrics and in what he says he wants to do for the Lord, no excuse can be given for the above-mentioned sketch. Laughing at ourselves and enjoying one another's fellowship is one thing, but to poke fun at the very God of Glory and John the Baptist to get your laughs is nothing short of BLASPHEMY!!

Carman ends the video by reducing the wonderful act of redemption of all the saints of God to the level of a boxing match. With "Rocky" type music playing in the background and God the Father as referee, Jesus and Satan battle it out to see who will be the "Champion". Such a charade only serves to belittle the sufferings of the Lord Jesus on the Cross to save His people from their sins.
See more at: http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/ccm/carman1.shtml

I don't believe this is uncommon in CCM. Is it evil. It is downright blasphemous. The Bible says, "Flee from all appearances of evil." It says, "Love not the world neither the things that are in the world." Why do Christians need to copy the world's music and then try to justify it as being right?

DHK