MMF - Getting the right blend

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by apeman, May 18, 2001.

  1. apeman

    apeman
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    I want to try and get the right blend of Contemporary hymns and Classic hymns in our church services.

    What has worked and not worked for other music ministries?

    ~Theological Neophyte~

    [ September 08, 2002, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  2. Aaron

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    Whatever does not include something which would offend any brother in your church service.
     
  3. apeman

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    This may clarify what I am looking for. :rolleyes:
    Sunday 1 => All (older) Hymns
    Results: Younger folks complained we needed to be more contemporary in our services

    Sunday 2 => Mix of Worship and Hymns
    Results:Younger folk complained because not enough contemporary, older folks contacted Pastor to make sure he had approved the songs I picked out.

    Sunday 3 => Started the Worship service 10 min early with a praise and worship time. Then sang normal hymns.
    Results: The Younger crowd liked it ... the older folks talked to Pastor and asked him to reign me in.

    Sunday 4 => Back to the normal schedule. Welcome, Hymn, Prayer, Hymn, Announcements, Hymn, Offering, Preaching, Hymn.
    Results: Younger folks really upset because I had stopped working for them ... they approached the pastor to ask him to bring back the worship.

    What do your churches do? We have two services and have a good mix of generations at both.

    ~Theological Neophyte~
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    Visited a church on Mother's Day that blended it quite well.

    Started about 10 minutes early - organ/piano with some rousing (I call it "roller skating" music) familiar songs - Roll is Called Up Yonder, I'll Fly Away. Just music.

    Then songleader came on and shifted to a couple of rousing (same style) choruses as people were finding a seat.

    Service started with couple of regular hymns (When We All Get to Heaven & Praise Him) then a couple of P&W songs of the same ilk, printed words in bulletin.

    Did a classical offeratory (oboe, Children of the Heavenly Father arrangement to die for)

    Another regular hymn (My Jesus I Love Thee) and another P&W chorus on loving God. I personally did not know ANY of the praise and worship songs, but each played twice and the simple melodies were easy to pick up.

    Worked for them. 450+ in auditorium and I was at service #3 that morning out of 4. Glad that my newly-born again brother in law is being exposed to a thoughtful blend of old and new.

    Just my recent experience, ~TN~, hope it helps
     
  5. Aaron

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    Okay, I'll try again.

    The younger folks aren't offended by the older hymns, they simply lust after the sensual music of the newer songs and get angry when they don't get their fix.

    The older folks have a genuine conscience toward "new worship." You must follow the principles in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 if you feel music is a neutral methodology. See the Music Seminars thread. Ransom and I discussed this issue at length.

    But here is a Word that speaks directly to your situation: 1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. BTW, the second half of that verse does not negate the force of the first half.

    You are the music "minister"? IMHO the qualifications for bishop or deacon apply to you also.

    They are not to be "self-willed," Titus 1:7. The first words of this thread were "I want." The question is, what does God want, and I think I supplied enough Scripture to answer that question.

    Have a good and Godly worship service! ;)
     
  6. apeman

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron:
    You are the music "minister"? IMHO the qualifications for bishop or deacon apply to you also.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Guess we will have to change the title then. :D

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron:
    They are not to be "self-willed," Titus 1:7. The first words of this thread were "I want." The question is, what does God want, and I think I supplied enough Scripture to answer that question.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The problem isn't what I want ( I would pitch out even some of the more modern "hymns" that have been placed in our hymnbook) It is as you say to have a music ministry that is focused on what God wants, however I am held responsible to the local body of believers, most of these folks (even the younger 30's-40's) are my elder. Now what?

    ~Theological Neophyte~
     
  7. Rockfort

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    &lt; It is as you say to have a music ministry that is focused on what God wants, however I am held responsible to the local body of believers, most of these folks (even the younger 30's-40's) are my elder. Now what? &gt;

    God has not designated a music style He is for or against, so being "responsible to the local body of believers," you simply have to try to please most of them most of the time, or if that seems impossible, then to please most of them some of the time.

    These 30's and 40's agers (my age group) are usually proponents of contemporary music and praise songs, so don't think all the 'elders' just want the hymns so familiar they can be sung without thinking. Aaron made a point about being "self-willed." If anyone-- young or old-- insists only their choice of music is selected, then they are being very self-willed and they-- not you-- are violating the requirements of those who serve the church.
     
  8. Aaron

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    Well, Theo, you're last post is wholly consistent with your screen name. ;)

    Rockfort, if you read the two chapters to which I referred you may not find much support for your premises.
     
  9. Karen

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Theological Neophyte~:
    I want to try and get the right blend of Contemporary hymns and Classic hymns in our church services....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    In my opinion, you need to back up to some more foundational planning for the service. Many writers on worship refer to Isaiah 6 as a model for a worship order.

    There is an entrance in a special way into God's presence, which precipitaties awe, repentance and confession, and leads to teaching, proclamation, and commmissioning.

    We often spend too much time trying to balance musical styles instead of thinking first about what God wants to accomplish in that service. It is too easy to end up with a variety of unconnected thoughts because we have succeeded with a musical style for everyone.

    In other words, pay more attention to the words and how they will flow together in that service. Pay more attention to the praying. Really, when you have heard one Baptist offertory or benediction prayer, you have heard them all, and that is a great shame.
    There is far more to a well-planned worship service than some singing warming you up for some evangelistic preaching, interspersed by thanking God momentarily that we are all here.

    Karen

    [ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: Karen ]

    [ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: Karen ]
     
  10. Rockfort

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    &lt; , if you read the two chapters to which I referred you may not find much support for your premises. &gt;

    On the contrary, there is ample support in those chapters you cited. "But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God (Romans 14:10)." If one person/group regards another person/group with contempt for the music they prefer, that is a violation of this scriptural precept. Both Romans 14 and I Corinthians 8 say alot about 'not causing your brother to stumble.' There would be no worship service at all if we eliminated *everything* someone moans or groans about-- style of music, instruments used, which verses, whether the choir wears robes or not, when to have the offering, how to recognize visitors (if at all), whether to have screen projections.... the list is virtually endless. But we would be left with almost, if not in fact, *nothing* if we removed what *somebody* thinks is not the way to go.

    Now, as you said in another thread that "full instrumentals" stretch what scripture prescribes [pharaphrasing], is the cut-off for instruments at NO instruments, ONE instrument, or where? The closest the NT comes to authorizing any instruments is in 2 verses which both say to utilize "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs." 'Psalm' does denote striking or twitching with the fingers and a sacred song to such accompaniment.
     
  11. Aaron

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rockfort:


    On the contrary, there is ample support in those chapters you cited. "But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God (Romans 14:10)." If one person/group regards another person/group with contempt for the music they prefer, that is a violation of this scriptural precept. Both Romans 14 and I Corinthians 8 say alot about 'not causing your brother to stumble.' There would be no worship service at all if we eliminated *everything* someone moans or groans about-- style of music, instruments used, which verses, whether the choir wears robes or not, when to have the offering, how to recognize visitors (if at all), whether to have screen projections.... the list is virtually endless. But we would be left with almost, if not in fact, *nothing* if we removed what *somebody* thinks is not the way to go.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Isn't it interesting that the early church had none of those things?


    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rockfort:


    Now, as you said in another thread that "full instrumentals" stretch what scripture prescribes [pharaphrasing], is the cut-off for instruments at NO instruments, ONE instrument, or where? The closest the NT comes to authorizing any instruments is in 2 verses which both say to utilize "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs." 'Psalm' does denote striking or twitching with the fingers and a sacred song to such accompaniment.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is a masterpiece of misstatement and misrepresentation. The psalms here refer to the book of Psalms, and they are so called because they were accompanied by the psalter. From the beginning of Christianity the psalters mentioned in the psalms were applied spiritually to mean we should praise god with the works of our hands.
     
  12. Rockfort

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    &lt; Isn't it interesting that the early church had none of those things? &gt;
    It sure enough is. Also that they did not have microphones, air conditioning, wheel chair ramps, even ‘church building.’
    &lt; From the beginning of Christianity the psalters mentioned in the psalms were applied spiritually to mean we should praise god with the works of our hands. &gt;
    And what do you play a harp or guitar with…your feet?
     
  13. r5dots

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    I am in the 30-40 year old range (closer to the 40) but I just don't feel the contemporary music is "reverent" enough to express my feelings about God. It's more like, "Wuz up, broman, God, whaz shakin'?" You know, a more "buddy" type praise. Does this make sense to anyone else? Enlighten me with your thoughts! I am learning so much here!
     
  14. Rockfort

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    &lt; ...but I just don't feel the contemporary music is "reverent" enough to express my feelings about God. &gt;

    This is not meant to be disparaging, but a person saying "I just don't feel..." is not competent. That is the reason there are predominantly homosexual churches and the reason some Christians say all Christians must be vegetarians or that all must be celibate. Since it is from the *feeling* perspective that you expressed this thought, I assume you know that scripture does not define a music style by time, tempo, and accentuation and then condemn that style.

    As for the "buddy" reference, do you dislike songs such as IN THE GARDEN ["And He walks with me and He talks with me..."], HE'S MY FRIEND, and I'VE FOUND A FRIEND, O SUCH FRIEND! because that implies a 'buddy' level, not a sovereign/subject or a master/servant level?
     

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