MMF - Joy To The World

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by tyndale1946, Nov 29, 2001.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Issac Watts (1674-1748) was evidently short and not very handsome. A young lady (Elizabeth Singer) who had fallen in love with him from his writings, asked him to marry her, but when she saw him in person she took back the offer. She wrote later that Issac Watts was "only five feet tall, with a shallow face, hooked nose, prominant cheek bones, small eyes, and deathlike color.....I admired the jewel but not the casket" that contained the jewel. Maybe, he wasn't a looker, but Issac Watts could certainly write. Wanting to write songs based on the Psalms from a New Testament background, Issac Watts wrote Joy To The World from Psalm 98. (Ps 98:4 Make a joyful noice unto the Lord all the earth; make a loud noise and rejoice and sing praise....). Watts was not immediately appreciated. "How dare he take the pslams and try to improve them," was the outcry.

    Many years after Watts' death, Dr. Lowell Mason (1792-1872) took the hymn and placed it to music based on The Messiah by Frederick Handel (1685-1759), a contemperary of Issac Watts. Lowell started composing music in my home state of Georgia where he lived and worked as a banker (Savannah, GA) from 1812 - 1827. When he tried to publish his first set of musical works, it was rejected. Finally, the Handel and Haydn Society of Boston, Massachusetts accepted it. Born in Massachusettes, in 1827 Lowell returned there from Georgia where he eventually became president over the society that finally published his works. He went on to a great music career, composing over 1600 sacred works, including "Antioch" in 1848 which now takes the title of Isaac Watt's work, Joy To The World.

    Joy To The World is now universally sung as one of the most joyous songs of Christmas. Watts' poem,Joy To The World, has also been sung to John Wyeth's tune, "Nettleton", to which is more commonly sung "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing." However, Lowell's tune remains the most popular. --- Bill Drennon

    "Let the heavens rejoice, let the earth be glad; let the sea resound, and all that is in it; let the fields be jubilant, and everything in them." Psalms 96:11-13

    Joy to the world, the Lord is come!
    Let earth receive her King;
    Let every heart prepare Him room,
    And heaven and nature sing,
    And heaven and nature sing,
    And heaven, and heaven, and nature sing.

    Joy to the world, the Savior reigns!
    Let men their songs employ;
    While fields and floods, rocks, hills and plains
    Repeat the sounding joy,
    Repeat the sounding joy,
    Repeat, repeat, the sounding joy.

    No more let sins and sorrows grow,
    Nor thorns infest the ground;
    He comes to make His blessings flow
    Far as the curse is found,
    Far as the curse is found,
    Far as, far as, the curse is found.

    He rules the world with truth and grace,
    And makes the nations prove
    The glories of His righteousness,
    And wonders of His love,
    And wonders of His love,
    And wonders, wonders, of His love.

    Jesus Is The Reason For The Season... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ September 12, 2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Want to discuss post-mill or a-mill theology that the words convey?

    I don't consider Joy to the World a Christmas Carol at all.
     
  3. Brother Adam

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    oh no, uh-oh, here we go again...okay go ahead Dr. Bob, tell us how horrible Joy to the World is in the way that you interpt the song [​IMG]

    UNP, Adam
     
  4. superdave

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    Yes,
    Are we looking foreward to the kingdom here, or is it already upon us.

    I guess we could clear up all the controversy and sing "The King is Coming" right after :D
     
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Hey I'm new here did I by ignorance open a can of worms. If I did forgive me. I just wanted to start the season with a Christmas Song. I could have put in Frosty The Snowman but I didn't feel it was right for the Baptist Board. As far as Premil, Post, Ah or Preterist I am burned out and will discuss this on another post... Jesus Is The Reason For The Season... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  6. Ransom

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    Dr. Bob said:

    Want to discuss post-mill or a-mill theology that the words convey?

    I suppose if Watts had lived in the last century he would have written it a little differently.

    Nuts to the world! the Lord is come!
    Put on your robes of white!
    And stand out on your roof
    Until the Rapture comes
    And meet him in the air,
    And meet him in the air,
    And meet him, meet him in the air!
     
  7. Brother Adam

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    ROFLOL!!!!!

    UNP, Adam
     
  8. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    That was so funny I almost rolled out of my Baptist skin... ROBSLOL... Brother Glen :D
     
  9. SaggyWoman

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    Well, it DOESN'T say ANYTHING about His birth. I mean, he didn't come as a king. . .. . :rolleyes:

    You better watch out. You better not cry. You better not pout.
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Joy to the world, the Lord is come!
    Let earth receive her King;
    Let every heart prepare Him room,
    And heaven and nature sing,
    And heaven and nature sing,
    And heaven, and heaven, and nature sing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I guess the first line might be construed as a reference to the Advent, but as I recall, they "crucified" their King the first time around. (When He comes again, nobody is going to cross Him) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Joy to the world, the Savior reigns!
    Let men their songs employ;
    While fields and floods, rocks, hills and plains
    Repeat the sounding joy,
    Repeat the sounding joy,
    Repeat, repeat, the sounding joy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, in a sense the first line here could be talking about today, with Jesus reigning in a way in the hearts of believers. Kinda. Not doing a very good job, though, from the looks of things. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>No more let sins and sorrows grow,
    Nor thorns infest the ground;
    He comes to make His blessings flow
    Far as the curse is found,
    Far as the curse is found,
    Far as, far as, the curse is found.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now this is 100% millenial and if it applied to the time of Christ or now, it is somebody's fanciful dream, not reality <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    He rules the world with truth and grace,
    And makes the nations prove
    The glories of His righteousness,
    And wonders of His love,
    And wonders of His love,
    And wonders, wonders, of His love.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And finally this verse speaks of the great and coming kingdom. Not He will rule, but present tense - He is ruling, making nations prove his righteousness and love. Yeah. Right.

    IMNSHO, afraid this song falls out of the Christmas Carol category and becomes a prayer for the millenium . . . or a doggeral mix of really poor theology.

    Two thumbs down.

    The balcony is closed.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Dr. Bob,

    We don't walk by sight. We walk by faith. Hope that is seen is no longer hope.

    As far as making nations prove the glories of His righteousness, didn't you yourself at one time quote Psalm 76:10, Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee?

    And wasn't it pagan, Egyptian Pharoah that God used to show His power and declare His name throughout all the earth? For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Romans 9:17.

    He does make the nations prove the glories of His righteousness.

    [ December 02, 2001: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  12. superdave

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> (When He comes again, nobody is going to cross Him) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sounds like something that should be on a T-shirt ;)

    I remember helping another Grif-dog polish that one up in our dorm room.
     
  13. Grace

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    I like Joy to the World, but I've heard somebody else say that it is more about the second coming of Christ. Maybe it was David Jeremiah. Hey, works for me. Now I can sing it in July without getting funny looks. ;)
     
  14. rlvaughn

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    I haven't thought about this in a long time; but I remember reading something about this song and Isaac Watts' theology a long time ago. IIRC, Watts' was a premillennialist and this song is not about the birth of Christ, but rather his vision of the millennial kingdom. I'll look through my books and see if I can locate where I read about it.
     
  15. Miss Bobbie

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    Grace is right. David Jeremiah teaches in his Revelation series, "Escape the Coming Night," that "Joy to the World" is about the second coming. Puts a whole different perspective on it.

    And yeah - "When He comes again, nobody is going to cross Him" belongs on a T-shirt in the Baptist Board store! [​IMG]
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    Well, my son Grif-Dog and his cousin SuperDave actually designed that T-shirt in their "Fear God" Gear (blatant rip off of "No Fear").

    Grif-Dog sold his Gospel Gear Company to a large Colorado firm some years ago, along with the copyright to that t-shirt. Guess he makes more $$ as CEO of two dot.coms than with t-shirt design. And, oh year, being a baptist pastor five years, too.
     
  17. PreacherDave

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    Didn't come as a King the first time?! I beg your pardon. When Pilate asked Him if He was a King Jesus did not deny it, but merely stated that His kingdom was not of this world.
    Jesus came as a King; but of a spiritual, eternal Kingdom. Jesus, sitting at the right hand of the Father, lives as King now. And when He returns He will complete His kingdom. This is the good news of the New Covenant in Christ!
    Thus we can sing Joy to the Word, the LORD has come! He always has & always will be King of kings & Lord of lords...of the increase of His government & peace there shall be no end...It doesn't just start in heaven, nor does it start in the future upon His return...it IS, NOW! (Don't confuse me with those "Kingdom Now" folks. They don't have a grip.)
    Check into RC Sproul's book, which is an explanation of partial preterist/amil position. It will surprise you how well the Scripture falls into place without being made into a Gumby mold!
    Also, for free: write to Mt Zion Bible Church (2603 W. Wright St. Pensacola,Florida, 32505) for a booklet: by George H. Clement called The ABC's of the Prophetical Scriptures.
    Praise God! Our King has come & will come again!
     
  18. Daniel

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    Who cares about these trivial details? I will continue to enjoy JOY TO THE WORLD!
     
  19. Dr. Bob

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    Go for it, Daniel! We have LOTS of songs that we sing regularly in our churches that teach TERRIBLE doctrine, or are so misused (as Joy is at Christmas) that we tend not to really THINK about the words any more.

    Like I've always said, "Don't let your theology bother the way you live." :rolleyes: [​IMG] :rolleyes:
     
  20. swaimj

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    Christmas songs are so beautiful and yet so inaccurate. To my knowledge, the angels are not said to have sung at Jesus' birth, but don't tell that to Christmas carols like "It Came Upon a Mid-night Clear", and "Angels We Have Heard on High", and "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" (which nevertheless contains tremendous statements of theology). Oh well, that's what we get for adopting a pagan holiday in the first place. The lesson? When the study of theology causes "Joy to the World" to make me joyless, it's time to take a break!!!

    [​IMG]

    [ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: swaimj ]
     

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