Mode of Baptism and Hebrews 9:10

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Michael Wrenn, Dec 13, 2003.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    I believe immersion was the mode used in the first century church and is the most appropriate one for baptism, and yet I also believe the Bible allows for other modes.

    In Hebrews 9:10 the word for "washings" is also used to include Old Testament rituals of sprinkling (reference Numbers 19:13). I've mentioned this verse a couple of times on this forum, but no one has commented directly on this yet, as far as I know.

    I hope someone will comment this time.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    Hebrews 9:10 has nothing to do with baptism though. It is talking about OT rituals, which have no relevance to Christian baptism.
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    So, then why is the word "baptizo" used there?
     
  4. Bethelassoc

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    Baptismos can also mean washing. The Jews were known for their ceremonial washings of the body before they could partake of certain ceremonies. I've heard it said that water baptism came from the Jews ceremonial immersions, but I may be wrong.

    Besides, that verse of scripture mentions what did take place before the "reformation" or change. There has been a change, since Christ is now the High Priest, these things mentioned in verse 10 are not imposed anymore.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    The word baptismos or baptizo is used several times when Christian baptism is not in view. A word need not refer to the same thing everytime it is used.
     
  6. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    I understand what you're saying, but the point I'm trying to make is that those who claim that "baptizo" always means immersion are incorrect. So, to insist that it always means immersion when applied to Christian baptism is also incorrect and illogical.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    I don't agree with that at all. I don't see any use in the NT where it can't mean immersion. Some of the ritual washings in the OT were immersion.
     
  8. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Larry, you said, "I don't see any use in the NT where it can't mean immersion."

    I don't think any such use excludes immersion; rather, that it includes the possibility of modes other than immersion.
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    When referring to the OT ablutions (mikvah - which is, by the way, immersion) baptismos was used. It meant in the OT era a ceremonial washing.

    In the NT era, talking of baptism as a Christian ritual, the meaning is always 100% clear. Down in, up out. Water in an oasis, not just a canteen to drip on the head. Etc.

    Of course, it any wonders what the GREEK world considered the meaning of "baptizo", just ask a Greek Orthodox. They might be paedo-baptists, but they dunk 'em!
     
  10. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    I was just wondering how some could explain, or explain away, this verse, considering the word used.

    Another question: How was it possible for immersion to be used in the catacombs?

    Also, the Didache, a late first century-early second century writing, allows for pouring. The Didache was considered scripture by many in the early church.

    Considering all of this, I just think it's being legalistic to require immersion in every instance.
     
  11. Aaron

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    Of course, it any wonders what the GREEK world considered the meaning of "baptizo", just ask a Greek Orthodox. They might be paedo-baptists, but they dunk 'em!

    Excellent point. ;)
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Yes, Aaron and Dr. Bob, I'm aware of that, having studied the Orthodox Church. But that still doesn't answer my question.
     
  13. TheOliveBranch

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    Taking into consideration what baptism represents, how can one be sprinkled in a burial? To have a proper symbol of the death, burial, and resurrection, complete immersion represents this act.
     
  14. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    TOB,

    I agree with your sentiments, but is this ALL baptism represents? Does/could it not also represent the Holy Spirit being poured out on the believer, and our "hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience," as Hebrews 10:22 says?
     
  15. R. Charles Blair

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    You can immerse by pouring if you have a big enough tank and enough of the material in use (so the Holy Spirit "overwhelmed" that waiting church in Acts 2, surrounding and filling completely - just as national Israel was "immersed" by being surrounded by dry land beneath, water on both sides, and the Shekinah cloud overhead).

    Happy New Year! - R. Charles Blair - Ro. 8:28
     
  16. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Hey, Charles, I like that! [​IMG]

    Happy New Year to you, too!
     

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