Modern Day Scribes and Pharisees

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by keith, Oct 29, 2001.

  1. keith

    keith
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    I wonder who (or what groups of people) ya'll think are the equivalent of the scribes and Pharisees in Jesus's Day.

    Please before you go equating all those you disapprove of (for actions or words or beliefs), consider a Gospel event or perhaps a parable and relate what the parrallel is between then and now.

    I think it would be good to truely understand what angered Jesus so. And then say what the opposite is just so this won't get too negative.
     
  2. Michael Wrenn

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    What angered Jesus was hatemongering, legalistic, self-righteous, Pharisees; the modern-day equivalent are the foaming-at-the-mouth, militant fundamentalists who think they have God all figured out and in their own eyes are the self-appointed spokesmen for God. They alone know the truth, and if you disagree with them, you are a hellbound heretic.

    The opposite are those who genuinely love their brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of doctrinal differences.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    The Pharisees were the most beloved of the religious leaders in all Israel. They were viewed as the epitome of personal holiness and obedience. It was not a slur or perjorative to be called a "pharisee"; it was an honor.

    Here are TEN POSITIVE TRAITS OF PHARISEES:

    1. Lived a Virtuous Life: Much of what these men did was commendable. Jesus commended them! (Matthew 23:3). Kept the Law done to the minutest detail

    2. Accepted the Word of God: It was their rule, they loved it and believed it to be the very Scripture.

    3. Political Conservatives: The “people’s party” – not compromising with the liberal crowd of the Herodians or involved with the radical Zealots. They were truly the national heroes.

    4. Great Students of the Word: Would meet for hours in study of the Word and ancient writings

    5. Kept the Ceremonial Laws: Would spend one hour in contemplation, one hour in prayer and one hour in reflection – 3 times a day! They fasted on the second and fifth day of every week.

    6. Fervent Evangelism: They wanted to make converts and disciples out of every Jew and preached, taught and LIVED their lifestyle publicly so others would want to imitate them.

    7. Emphasis on Education: They taught their strict way of life in every synagogue (only formal education of most Jews)

    8. Sacrificial Giving: They meticulously practiced tithing and giving above what anyone else was doing

    9. Anticipated the Messiah: With their knowledge of Scripture, they were anxiously looking for Messiah to come and solve their problems of lax religion and Roman occupation.

    10. Most Prestigious and Powerful Group: Elite of society, with more power and clout than any other political or religious group. Wealth, honor and influence came with simply proclaiming you were a Pharisee.

    No offense, but I would have LOVED to have a church full of these kind of people. They looked good, as if the best Christian money could buy. Don't let all the bad press of the negatives cause you to overlook the good.

    Dr. Bob Griffin,
    Recovering Pharisee
    Been There, Done That, Burned the T-Shirt

    [ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  4. Don

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    That about says it.

    Spooky thing though, Mike; that post was your 666th....
     
  5. Roadrunner

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  6. Michael Wrenn

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    Don,

    Then I'd better hurry and post this one. [​IMG] :eek: :rolleyes:
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    What a relief, Michael! We had a wager going on the private forums whether you were the antichrist . . or false prophet . . or beast. :eek:

    Or BAPTIST! :rolleyes:
     
  8. ellis

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    And yet, all those great traits of theirs cause them to be so self-righteous, so dependent on their own wisdom in interpreting the scripture, and so arrogant in their affairs that they separated themselves from the "world" that they themselves subjectively rejected, and as a consequence, most of them missed the Messiah when he came. Then, because their pride had been wounded from missing him, and he himself not being one of them, they brought about his destruction and proceeded to lead the persecution against his followers. It was the Pharisees that initiated and forever separated Judaism from its redemptive means in Christianity, and it was Pharisaic attitudes that developed the exclusivism among Jewish Christians over circumcision.

    They are like the clique of people in many churches, the self appointed leadership to which the rest of the church must defer in order to get anything done. They are the ones who contribute to such exclusivity regarding doctrine, practice and policy in the church that they drive out those who disagree, usually crippling a church.

    I think I'd rather be a part of a church full of fishermen.

    (And greetings to Yankee fans! In brotherly love, of course!)

    [ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: ellis ]
     
  9. Rev. Joshua

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
    What a relief, Michael! We had a wager going on the private forums whether you were the antichrist . . or false prophet . . or beast. :eek:

    Or BAPTIST! :rolleyes:
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    *gulp* If there was debate that Michael was any of the above, I shudder to think what will happen if my posts hit that number. :eek:
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    Joshua -

    Never fear about reaching 666. Just keep posting and sooner or later you'll either be banned or burned! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    They shoot horses, don't they? :rolleyes:
     
  11. preacher

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    Only when they break a leg. Which makes them useless. I may not agree with Joshua's views, but in God's eyes he must not be useless, cause he's still breathing. ;)
     
  12. keith

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    Ok so far only two "groups" identified as Modern Day Pharisees:

    1 - the foaming-at-the-mouth, militant fundamentalists (from Michael)

    2 - self appointed leadership of many churches (from Ellis)

    If you would, can you point to a passage or passages that you can draw a parallel to (Jesus's Day vs. ours)
     
  13. Ernie Brazee

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    This describes the scholars of today who set themselves up as interpreters of the ancient scrolls and decide which Bible we should use. Like the Pharisees they had no faith only knowledge, for if they had faith they would have recognized the Mesiah (Living Word of God)
    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Today if the scholars had faith they would recognize the true Word of God.
    Ernie

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ellis:
    And yet, all those great traits of theirs cause them to be so self-righteous, so dependent on their own wisdom in interpreting the scripture, and so arrogant in their affairs that they separated themselves from the "world" that they themselves subjectively rejected, and as a consequence, most of them missed the Messiah when he came. Then, because their pride had been wounded from missing him, and he himself not being one of them, they brought about his destruction and proceeded to lead the persecution against his followers. It was the Pharisees that initiated and forever separated Judaism from its redemptive means in Christianity, and it was Pharisaic attitudes that developed the exclusivism among Jewish Christians over circumcision.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]
     
  14. Jonathan

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by keith:
    I wonder who (or what groups of people) ya'll think are the equivalent of the scribes and Pharisees in Jesus's Day.

    Please before you go equating all those you disapprove of (for actions or words or beliefs), consider a Gospel event or perhaps a parable and relate what the parrallel is between then and now.

    I think it would be good to truely understand what angered Jesus so. And then say what the opposite is just so this won't get too negative.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I would equate the Pharisees of Jesus' day to the long time members of local church who state, "we've never done it this way before" in response to any stylistic or programmatic change in a church's direction.

    I would equate the Scribes of Jesus' day to those folks in our churches who seem to record every misstep, offence, slight, etc... by the leadership (and other members for that matter) but fail to also note the joyful times when things go as planned.

    In another direction, I would consider Pharisees to be those folks whose definitions of things are so precise as to be unable to deal with change. In my own Southern Baptist community, these folks exist both to the left and to the right.
     
  15. PackerBacker

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    Keith,

    The scary part of answering the question is to realize how close to home the answer might be. :eek: Mark 7:1-9 reminds me of much that is taking place in Fundamental Baptist Circles. Sad when the commandments of God are laid aside for the traditions of men.

    Case in point. A friend of mine was trying to pastor a small mission work. Hardly anyone came on Wednesday services, so he canceled the service. He has taken all sorts of heat for this from fellow Baptists in my circle. When asked what was biblically wrong in not having a Wednesday service, he has been told, “All Fundamental Baptist have Wednesday services, brother. You are forsaking “one another” to do this.” Sad to be reminded of how close to home the “Pharisees” are sometimes.
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PackerBacker:
    Mark 7:1-9 reminds me of much that is taking place in Fundamental Baptist Circles. Sad when the commandments of God are laid aside for the traditions of men. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Interesting you say this because what is going on in "moderate" Baptist circles (such as the CBF, the churches of Josh and Michael for instance) sounds to me like laying aside the commandments of God for the traditions of men.

    I guess its all in perspective isn't it.

    [ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  17. Michael Wrenn

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    At present, I do not support any national Baptist body; I do support my state Baptist convention because they refuse to be dictated to by anyone, including the fundie SBC with its new creed, the BF&M 2000.

    The larger body that comes closest to my beliefs is the General Baptists, and the Baptist General Convention of Texas--conservative, not fundamentalist, Southern Baptists.
     

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