Modern worship in church = apostasy?

If you went to the site, you saw the picture for the Vintage service
was the guitar.

 

Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs are not a style in contrast to "rock", but are about the words (what is being sung about). But words seem to mean little to CCM critics who think a beat accent is decisive in making it "light" or "darkness". Most of your "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" are probably 4/4 time accented as marching rhythms, and 3/4 waltzes (and 6/8 which is a cross between the two). These can be seen as "worldly" and "darkness", and an older generation in the Church centuries ago once thought so. But that doesn't stop you from still accepting them as "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs".
And "flesh" is not just physical pleasure. When churches or cultures, or generations think their music is "light", and others are "darkness" (and with no real scriptural support at all), that is pride, and is also a work of the flesh. So people's "flesh" enjoy the older style music as well, though they are not aware of it!

 

Thanks for checking. I looked for it on Amazon by title and didn't have any success. I pray God heals whatever is ailing you.

 

Hah! I'm blaming it on the strong meds!

The Music of Jubal was not a book. It was a message my pastor preached long, long, ago. He has many audio cassettes for $4.50. I'm not sure if that one is on there or not.

Click HERE for web site.

I did find, however, Alan Ives message on How to Tell the Right Kind of Music . Click on the same link above and find an audio Cassette, for $4.50, about 2/3 of the way down the page.

It is the best one I've heard on the subject.
Click HERE for Alan Ives web site.

Here you can buy a DVD of The Right Kind of Music for $17.95. You can also view a video clip of the message on this site where he demonstrates different types of 'beats' on the piano.

Sorry about the mix-up. I thought I was seeing the picture of that other book, in my mind, but I was seeing the picture on the tape...

There is also a small book titled God's Song by Pastor David Moss, North Hills Baptist Church, York, PA, that is really an outstanding book. I haven't tried to Google it.

P.S.
Thanks for the prayer. I am down with a very severe case of Chronic Bronchitis.

 

I did not know which angle this "the Music of Jubal" would be coming from, but since you cite Ives, I must say I didn't know you were into this music argument as well. I guess I haven''t seen you in this debate on the music forum before, and did not associate you with the Anti-CCM crowd.

But anyway, these claims are based on riduculous, pseudo-scientific claims, with often misinterpreted data. The idea they put forth that only "odd accented" beats are acceptable, and "even accented" (backbeat) is bad, and then all the stuff about syncopation and harmony, while having some grains of observable truth, still do not add up to any sound argument against contemporary music, and are certainly not biblical.

It is based all on a combination of science claims, "associations" (how people in the world have used it, and ultimately, which culture it came from), and from this, assumption that it causes sin, and is contrary to God's nature.

Here is my article on the issue, which covers all of these issues:

http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html

 

Whoa, Eric. Slow down and take a deep breath. :laugh:

I do not believe you can find where I ever said I was Anti-CCM. I listen to praise and worship music all the time.

I have heard Alan Ives preach many times and he is a good friend of my son. I do not agree with everything he says, but it doesn't make me want to burn my praise and worship CCM DVD's...

I am personal friends with John Schlitt of Petra, and his wife. (I went to the same church they did when he was in Head East). I don't agree with everything he says either, but it doesn't make me want to run to my Baptist Hymnal...

I was giving Rufus the opportunity to hear what Alan has to say about it.

 

OK, sorry for the misunderstanding. But from what I have seen, he does basically use those kinds of arguments at this site: www.biblebelievers.com/Ives1.htm

 

Yes, he does. As I said, I agree with some of what he believes and I disagree with others. The same as with John Schlitt.

My son, and Alan, are both pastors and they are very close. My son and I disagree on music, but we love each other anyway. :love2:

Actually, I love all kinds of music. I love my CCM praise tapes and I love my traditional hymns.

 

xdx: Why do you persist in asking all these questions when you don't want to hear the answers?

I don't think you want to do anything by yourself. You want all the answers thrown in your face so YOU can either accept or reject them instead of GETTING IN THE WORD and LETTING GOD CHANGE YOU.

It's getting a little old, ya know?

 

FWIW:
Everyone......do a little bible study sometime on the difference between "praise" and "worship". The two are VERY different from each other.

Almost without exception, when someone is worshipping God in the Bible they are on thier face or knees. When someone is praising God in the Bible they are standing and making a lot of noise about God's goodness, mercy, etc.

Therefore, how can you be worshipping God while playing music? Ever try to play guitar on your face? (Well BESIDES Jimi Hendrix, ha ha ha)

This buisiness of "worship music" is a lot of hooey which has only recently been invented, i.e. 20th century.


One would do well to use the proper terms when communicating rather than parrot that which is current and popular.

 

Excellent article. Thanks for the link.

 

Let's see,
dresses only
KJV only
hymns only
no alchohol
no tabacco
no rock and roll
no tv
no movies
Did I leave anything out?

 

That sounds like a good beginning for sanctified living.

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." - 2 Corinthians 6:17-18​

 

Not much, but you added some. At least where MY preferences and convictions are concerned.

I wear slacks (but not to church)
I prefer the KJV (there is a difference)
I sing what I like (especially southern gospel)
no alchohol
no tabacco
no rock and roll
I watch TV (but filter out the bad)
I rent movies so I don't have to watch the vile commercials and it's cheaper than going to the theater.

So actually, the alcohol, tobacco, and rock 'n' roll are the only things you got right, at least where I'm concerned.

Please don't paint people with such a wide brush...

And rufus: I may have my own preferences, but I agree with your premise!

 

Blessed, I don't mean to paint with a wide brush, but it seems everyday that I come to the BB there's a new rule to follow. If the list keeps growing we might as well sit in the corner under a blanket.

 

That would break another rule of not hiding your light under a basket.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." - 1 John 5:3​

 

That list what not all that long. Here is what else we had to
NOT do when I became a teen 50 years ago.

no dancing
no novels under 100 years old
no funny books (now known as 'comic books')
hardly any makeup (lite lipstick was MAX
--- and maybe some foundation, if nobody could see it)
no computers (they hadn't been invented yet)
no unescorted dates until 17