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Monergism vs Synergism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Reformer, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. Reformer

    Reformer New Member

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    Please tell me you didn't mean these two statements. If you did, you do not understand the milk of the Word, or even the Gospel in its simplest form.
     
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    If you really loved the word of God you wouldn't distort it the way you do. Poor rippon did you take you medication this morning?
    MB
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    What a well-reasoned response.Thanks for your edifying remarks.
     
  4. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    Wow, interesting. So, for people to love God and His Word, they need a pill? I've never heard this sort of Arminianism before.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Did you read the entire text? Did you understand what I said. Did you just highlight those two areas out of context and comment on them? Should I break it down and explain it more simply? Before we go further we should define what we mean. Then we understand each other in context. Am I to believe that you end salvation with just justification?

    BTW how is that any different than saying that a person who has never demonstrated works in their live was probably never saved in the first place. I see salvation as everything in the Christian experience and you seem to just see justification which limits it.
     
    #45 Thinkingstuff, Nov 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2008
  6. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    All is going much better.

    My wifes uncle was admitted into the hospital and flown to a different one in the same state due to severe cardiac problems and other issues with a very good chance he will die.

    As of last report, they took him off the ventilator (sp?) and he was sitting up and doing some short walks.

    Though his physical will still take a while to heal (and even then it will never be the same) his spiritual is well and as of shortly before the episode transpired - saved. (praise God! ) He had some really bad blood between his sons and him and he wanted to make amends but never got the opportunity to say he was sorry. Before his salvation it was the only thing he wanted to settle. When his sons were in the hospital room with him and he was coming around enough to think and talk straight, the first thing he said to both his boys is that if he was going to die he wanted to makes sure they were right with God (saved). Now his boys want to take both him and their mother back home the Carolinas with them and keep them close by to take care of them. Something they never cared about before nor even contemplated (according to them).

    God is great and greatly to praised, Amen?
     
  7. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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  8. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Just correcting my previous posting:

    Then you responded:

    Yes, even with 'irresistable grace'. The Reformers did not believe nor did they hold a person was forced to believe but in their view God regenerated man first so that the man of his own volition or will may freely receive the salvation that God desires to impart. You see the axe still falls on the fact that unless man of his own volition believes (whether incorporating irrestable grace or not) no man will ever be saved. Thus man still has a part to play in his salvation, it is still his choice to respond positively in order to be saved. So as you see, my 'theory' does not fall apart even under when the microscope of your view of 'irresistable grace' but maintains the fact that man does indeed participate in his salvation because withouth the man himself choosing to believe that man will not be saved.


    Side bar: - What is interesting in scripture is that those things that make one regenerate (justified, sanctified, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, righteous and IN Christ) are never stated to have been imparted or happened except 'by faith'. Thus until one excersizes faith one can not be regenerate or made new (old things are no longer but now all things are made new). Thus no man can be born again unless that man has placed faith in Christ because all are inparted by faith.

    This side bar however can be elaborated on in another thread which I have already created a little while back on regarding regeneration, called : Ordos Salutis 2; The Regeneration... sounds kinda like a sci-fi movie huh :laugh: I started the thread in order to talk specifically about regeneration apart from it's orginal thread "Ordos Salutis" where the topic orginally began. I have made two such threads but never really get anyone to participate. I wish to explore the 'how' question which leads to the 'when'. You are welcome to come and look as well as set forth what you understand or that the reformers have stated regarding the questions I have set forth in the thread and OP. It is something I beleive that is crucial to properly understanding the Ordos Salutis. But don't get any who really wish examine it. But come if you want or not - either way may God richly bless you brother.
     
    #48 Allan, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2008
  9. Goldie

    Goldie New Member

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    Why do people always insist on putting christians into two "camps" - calvinist or arminian? What about neither? I find it extremely weird, as they say you have to be one or the other. Well, sorry to confuse the issue, but I'm neither, as both are wrong

    What I simply believe in is salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

    I believe in the eternal security of the believer. I believe that Jesus Christ died for all men, and I believe what the Bible says, "That whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

    It's really so simple, makes one wonder why men go all out to complicate it?
     
    #49 Goldie, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2008
  10. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I had a friend (a pastor and missionary) who said that he was a Calminiast.
     
  11. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Mt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    Mt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, (saved) and I should heal them.

    "Monergism" says it's God/Jesus fault for Israel not being "Converted".

    "Synergism", says it's Israel fault for not being "Converted".

    "What do you say??
     
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I wonder the same thing. It seems that they don't believe it possible to be a Christian with out being either a Calvinist or Arminian.
    MB
     
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    What do I say? Welcome back to the BB :)

    I've missed the graph's and charts :D
     
  14. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Been "Busy" elsewhere, THANKS. :wavey:

    They're still Online,

    www,daysofgod.com
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Well there aren't too many semi-Pelagian Christians.There are quite a few Amyraldians running around.But a lot of believers are in the two camps of Calvinism and Arminianism.There are really no more options.
     
  16. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    The question is not about whether man "participates" or not (depending upon how one defines the term). The question is whether salvation is monergistic or synergistic.

    If by man's "participation" you mean that his "contribution" is in some way independent or adjoined to God's work wherein God's work is not truly effectual, then I would disagree.

    If by man's "participation" you mean this his "contribution" is a part of, or a result of, God's effectual work in his life, then I would agree.

    The question is not whether man has to exercise faith to be saved or whether faith comes from man's will. The question is whether man's faith is in some way independent or that it must complement an ineffectual work of God. The question is whether man's faith unto salvation comes by proxy of his fallen nature or that it is characteristic of regeneration.
     
  17. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Faith and salvation (grace) are separate, People have faith in all types of different religions without being saved.

    Calvin's doctrine said that was impossible without being first "regenerated", obviously, from what we see in the world, that's not true.

    "CHOOSING" what one "Believes" is a "Choice" given to everyone, and it's this choosing to believe God/Jesus/Scripture/Spirit's call that is the reason God choses to save us,

    so "FAITH" is necessary before the "Salvation".

    If God is not willing for any to perish, and no one comes to the father "EXCEPT" God calls them, then God is "Obligated" to call all, or be "less than truthful", which is impossible for God.

    The Gospel being preached to the whole world, "For a "witness", before the end comes will leave none justified they never had the opportunity to "hear/believe/call on him for salvation.

    Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    Act 2:37, they asked Peter, "WHAT SHALL WE DO", if they had been "predestine" the correct answer would have been there's "NOTHING" you can do.

    Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    God knew by "Foreknowledge" who would accept/reject him, but the "Offer" is still made, just as Jesus made the offer to Israel, and they refused.
     
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I will post this from a thread I attempted to start which no one seems to be interested in. I do want to make my views on the Biblical Doctrines of Grace known.

    Folks might be taken a little aback by Monergism vs Synergism so I thought I could put it a little differently.

    “Holy God: I am eternally grateful for your sovereign grace through which You chose me unto salvation through the finished work of Jesus Christ.

    I now understand that:
    a. You chose me through no merit of my own.
    b. Though I was spiritually dead in trespass and sin You made me spiritually alive,
    c. You granted unto me salvation, and
    d. You made me accepted in the beloved.

    Because this was done solely by the work of the Holy Spirit I cannot boast but can only say as did the Psalmist my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation." [Psalm 13:5]
     
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