More about Jehovah False Witnesses...

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by robycop3, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3
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    Dianetavegia...

    While I fully support your decision to not allow any JW literature into your home, I keep a collection of it in order to "know the enemy" and as part of a kit I keep for when they come to the door. I have a copy of their NWT phony bible, and a written history of its translation and of its principal makers, Fred Franz & George Gangas(Many JFWs don't even know where the NWT came from!) as well as a written history of the cult itself, showing its entirely-MAN-MADE roots.

    When they come to my home, I say, "Let's play 'let's make a deal'. I'll listen to YOU for as long as ya wanna talk "IF" ya promise to listen to ME for no more than 15 minutes unless you want me to continue." I have my "sales pitch" highly-honed so I can quickly say what I wanna, w/o going so fast that I gloss over something important. Here's a little of what I tell'em, always being careful not to mention "cult" at any time, as that turns off their "receptors" as quickly as if I'd simply shut up.

    Here's some of what I tell'em:

    "The roots of JW are traced to the 1840s when a NY farmer named William Miller did some math from the Book of Daniel and from some alleged dates of when certain historical events occurred. From his calculations, he predicted Jesus would return Oct.22, 1844. A large meteor shower that summer seemed to give credence to that prediction. NEVER MIND THAT JESUS SAID NO ONE BUT HIS FATHER KNOWS THE DATE OF HIS RETURN! Anyway, Oct.22 came & went w/o Jesus coming back, and Miller admitted his error & went back to watching the north end of a southbound horse. It's important to remember that Miller never tried to start a new church; he merely added his predictions to the doctrines of existing ones.

    However, one Ellen Gould White, & her husband James, along with some other former Millerites,including Joseph Bates, preached that Miller had only gotten the EVENT wrong, and not the date. She said that on that date, Jesus entered into the heavenly sanctuary to complete His atonement and to begin His investigative judgment of all who'd ever lived. They added many new converts and in 1860 they adopted the name "Seventh Day Adventists".

    The Jehovah's Witnesses was begun by Charles Taze Russell in 1872. He was born on February 16, 1852, the son of Joseph L. and Anna Eliza Russell. He was a SDA early on, but in 1869 he began to have great difficulty with several SDA doctrines. When Russell was 18, he organized a Bible class in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. A few years later, he bought into & co-published The Herald of the Morning magazine with its founder, N. H. Barbour and by 1884 Russell controlled the publication and renamed it The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, and founded Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society (now known as the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society).

    Russell died in 1916, & was replaced as president by Joseph Rutherford, who in 1931 changed the org's name to "the Jehovah's Witnesses". the presidents since then were Nathan Knorr, chosen upon Rutherford's 1942 death, the above-mentioned Fred Franz in 1977, Milton Henschel 1n 1992, and Don Adams was named in 2000 to replace the then-still-living Henschel as President during the "Great Shake-Up" of 2000.(Henschel died in 2003.)

    Please take time to study and see if any org even remotely resembling the JW existed before 1872. I also recommend you read Crisis of conscience by Raymond Franz, Fred's nephew and a former leader within the JW governing body."

    While well-versed in defenses for their cult, many JFWs are quite surprised to hear the origins of their cult.

    Diane, sometimes God places us in certain situations where we must rely upon HIM AND OURSELVES ALONE. If you hadn't been able to reach your hubby, your decision woulda been YOURS ALONE to have made, under God's guidance. I've made mine in accordance with the knowledge of pseudo-Christian cults the Holy Spirit has seen fit to reveal to me, believing He wants me to USE it to debunk the cults. BUT I SUPPORT YOURS 100%, and I KNOW you will continue to pray for those people involved, knowing that "the prayers of a righteous person avails much".
     
  2. donnA

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    You can't intelligently discuss refute their false doctrines if you don't know what they are.
    Though I wouldn't want it near my child.
     
  3. dianetavegia

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    I closed that thread because I didn't want to cross over to saying too much.

    However, it would NOT be my decision alone. Hubby and I felt it would have also needed the approval of the Youth Pastor and his wife and the other mom and dad of the children I keep. Would those parents want their children, ages 1, 3, 4, 7 (7 yr old during school holidays only) exposed to false teachings from a boy who is turning 13 in Feb? These people chose ME to 'raise' their children while they're at work because of my strong Christian stance.
     
  4. Karen

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    Difficult decision, and it is for you and the group you mentioned to make it. I applaud your prayerful concern for all the kids in your care.

    Since this is a discussion board, though, I'm not sure I would have reached your conclusion.
    I suppose a lot would depend on the behaviour of the 13-yearold boy.

    I was raised around Jehovah's Witness relatives.
    I did not become a Jehovah's Witness.
    I do not interpret the same way you do, about not letting things into your home.
    It would be more in the context of what is taught
    and presented as true, especially in a church setting.

    Is a thirteen-year-old boy really going to spend his time catechizing 3, 4 and 7 yearolds on JW doctrine? I doubt that he understands it that well or is that interested.
    Or would he be around a loving Christian babysitter? Maybe one of the few real Christians he has ever been around?

    Maybe what you have done is choke off witnessing opportunities with the mother. Many Jehovah's Witnesses live culturally isolated lives. She was not that far into it, or she would have been far more cautious about you.

    On a practical basis, how far would you take it? Will you require all prospective parents to have a credible profession of faith and be members in good standing of an evangelical church?
    Your child can be subtly influenced by many things. To some degree, it is a good thing for him to confront them with you and see how you handle it.

    Once again, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just bringing up some of the points re: why I MIGHT have come to a different conclusion.

    Karen
     
  5. donnA

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    A good oppertunity to witness to the mother and boy, and if a careful eye is kept on the kids you could stop anything before it happens.
     
  6. robycop3

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    Again, I fully support your decision in that matter, and your decision to close the other thread as well. If ya think this'n's going overboard & ya close it, you'll hear nothing from me about it & I won't bring up the JFW cult again in the same context.

    I believe small kids will listen to a teenager much more readily than they will an adult. That's another reason I support your stand.

    As for your decision to not have any JFW literature in your home...GREAT! You prolly have more visitors inside your home than I do in mine, and a new visitor might see that lit & draw some conclusion from it.

    I'm a big ugly dude with a loud mouth & my neighbors know my opinion of those pseudo-Christian cults. There's a large Kinky-Hall down the street from us, and they won't come near my door since two women who did so a coupla years left the JFW along w/their families. I give ALL credit for that to the HOLY SPIRIT who helped me place a seed of doubt about the Botchtower in their hearts, & then opened their eyes to the TRUTH. I still get an occasional JFW team or LSD..er..LDS team at my door, but no return calls. All I can do in my small way is lead them to the "water" of the Gospel, but I can't make'em DRINK. However, the HOLY SPIRIT can make'em EXTREMELY "thirsty" !

    I hope no one gets discouraged in witnessing to cult members. Who knows; maybe the HOLY SPIRIT has given you this witness opportunity. Please continue to witness to them, praying for the HOLY SPIRIT to speak through you however He chooses.
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    As spiritual leader of our home, my husband gave me his thoughts, we prayed together over the phone and I have no doubt we made the right decision.

    I tend to be 'too nice'. I know those of you who really dislike me will have a hard time believing that, but it's true. I'm in demand for childcare because I charge so little compared to others. I feel guilty saying 'no' even if it's something I don't want to do.

    If this mother had told me upfront she was a Jehovah's Witness, I would have told her no right away. We'd had a nice conversation and I'd accepted the offer of $90. a week to keep, home school and feed her almost 13 year old. Other local tutors charge $25. an hour. She had told me because he is 'behind', his daily work took him about 8 hours a day! She caught me off guard by telling me her religious affiliation at the end of our conversation.

    For the record, my home school group is a Christian group and she got my name there. I assumed she was also Christian because of that. We have one Church of Christ mom and the rest are IFB or SBC.

    Scripture tells me that I made the right decision because I went to my spiritual leader, my husband.

    Ephesians 5:21 submitting to one another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
     
  8. StefanM

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    Since your group is a Christian group, and the JW are not Christian, IMO, you and your husband made the correct decision. [​IMG]
     
  9. Jarthur001

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    There maybe times in which you will not decide to share Gods love to others. However, as a rule, we should always take full advantage of those that are lost and do not know God, yet God has sent our way. A song i sang as a kid and teach my kids to sing and live is...

    ”be a missionary everyday...
    tell the world that Jesus is the Way...
    be it in the town our country....
    or the busy avenue.....
    Africa or asia ....
    the task is up to you...
    so.....be a missionary everyday..
    tell the world that Jesus is the way...
    the Lord is soon returning...
    there is no time to loss...
    so.... be a missionary...
    Gods own adversary.....
    Be a missionary today....
    GO!!!!

    Nearly every year my girls have gone on a missionary trip for as little as 2 weeks, up to 3 months, sharing Gods love. This has lead my kids into the halls of the 3rd world conditions living in huts and drinking bad water. Into unsafe areas like downtown NY city and Chicago and the twin citys...living in the middle of gun fire and drug deals and woman of the street. They have held ones with AIDs, feed others that will only eat that one meal in 2 days. All of this and more is not to be kind to the needy, but to share Gods Word of Salvation to others.

    One thing i want my girls to know. Always everyday you will cross with people in life. Each time you meet them, make sure your goal is to bring them closer to God. If they do not know of God..tell them. If they know of Gods love, but have not come to believe, invite them to believe. If they know of god, but it is no the true God..show them from Gods word about the true God. If they know God ..and are saved..but have sinned...pray with them and show where God forgives. If they are saved and our walking holy..rejoice with them in what a Great God we have.

    Christ is bigger then anything we will face. I fear not Satan while God is in me. Greater is He that is in me than he that is on the world. If someone comes to my door and is preaching, sharing, whatever ..things about a god...this shows a open heart. They need to hear from Gods Word.

    Now if you have never talked with a JW or any one else in a cult, i would suggest you go to them with another person 1st that has witnessed to them. Its much better to see them in action 1st twisting the Bible with others then to be alone. If you can not go with another, make sure you know your Word for they will twist to say anything. If you do not know your word as you should...the key phrase to remember in Bible study is ...”Context is King”.

    Cults like to jump from verse to verse..pulling one verse out of context..and matching to another. When working with a cult go slow. Read not just the verse they point to....but the whole passage. when a verse seems to say as they claim it does...say..yes it does seem to say that...so lets look at the whole passage and see what it is talking about. when you do look at he whole passage...point out key words...like..

    “well...this says it is talking to the saints...so from here on this message is to saints..and not the unsaved as your group says.”

    when it comes to JWs...stick to things that really matter. I mean some of the beliefs are..well crazy...but silly to argue over. The main point is...

    Is Christ God...not should we salute the flag. the flag thing..the blood thing...the no war thing...these are all side tracks. Is Christ God?

    Diane, you did right by not going forward, for your hubby said no. But let me ask you to get ready for the next time this comes up. God will send more to you so do not be afraid. God will keep your kids safe, if you teach them the truth. You hold the truth. God is greater then their lies. the truth will set them free.


    Be a missionary everyday.


    In Christ...james
     
  10. Jarthur001

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    let me add.

    this would be a great forum area to start.

    How to share with the JWs
    How to share with the moonies
    How to share with the new age groups

    we all could put in our 2 cents and build a great resource for others, I think this would be very helpful to those sharing Gods Word. also we could learn more about a cult...and know more about how to get ready

    In Christ...James
     
  11. dianetavegia

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    James said: God will keep your kids safe, if you teach them the truth. You hold the truth

    Our kids are 34, almost 30, 28 and 10 (adopted our grandson). I do DAYCARE for families in our church. That's where the little ones come in. [​IMG] We also have grandchildren that are 5, 2 1/2 and 2.
     
  12. donnA

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    Well, since you currenty only have children from christian families, it makes sence to keep it only christian. Which means if the next people who ask about day care aren't christian then your saying no automatically right?
     
  13. robycop3

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    Problem is, JFWs actually believe they ARE Christians. The New York Times called them "Christian" in April, 2003. They jumped all over that error by the reporter, saying, "See" We're even endorsed by the TIMES!"

    ARE JFWs even CLOSE to being Christian? What do they believe?

    1. They have accepted the Organization as the Prophet of God.

    2. They have accepted the Organization as God's sole channel for His truth.

    3. They believe that to reject the Organization is to reject God.

    4. They believe that only the Organization can interpret the Bible; as individuals they are unable to do so.

    5. They believe the Watchtower Magazine contains God's truth, directed by Him, through the Organization.

    What do they believe that's against Christianity as we Baptists believe it?

    1. That Jesus is a created being/a creature.

    2. That Jesus is actually Michael the Archangel

    3. That Jesus was not resurrected bodily, but as a spirit being.

    4. That Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 (secretly to the Organization)

    5. That Jesus was only a man when on earth, not the Word Become flesh.

    6. That the Holy Spirit is only an active force, I.E. "The Force" in Star Wars, not the person of God.

    7. That Hell is simply the grave.

    7. That Heaven's doors is open to only 144,000.

    8. That the majority of Witnesses must remain on earth.

    9. That salvation is found only through the Organization.

    10. That it must be maintained by energetic works for the Organization until the end when one may merit eternal life on a paradise earth.

    11. That Satan is the author of the doctrine of the Trinity.

    12. That Jesus cannot be given worship, but only honor as Jehovah's first creation.

    When witnessing to them, I show them the lack of an indefinite article between "logos"(word) & "theos"(god) in their own Greek translation, the Kingdom Interlinear Translation(KIT) & ask them how "the word was "A" god" got into their NWT "bible". And I ask'em what they make of THESE verses in the NWT:

    "For there has been a child born to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6, NWT)

    "All this actually came about for that to be fulfilled which was spoken by Jehovah through his prophet, saying: 'Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Immanuel,' which means, when translated, 'With Us Is God'" (Matthew 1:22-23, NWT). (A Greek reader tells me that the KIT Greek actually reads literally, "With us is THEGod!")

    ...in answer Thomas said to him [to Jesus, risen in bodily, physical form according to Luke 24:37,43 NWT]: "My Lord (Kurios) and my God!" ( John 20:28 NWT).

    "the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:1 NWT)(The first NWTs read this way, as does the KIT...but the NWT "translation committee" later added "the" before "Savior".)

    As part of my evangelizing to a JFW, I show'wm these passages marked & highlighted in my copy of the NWT A ask'em who they believe...the Scriptures from their own BV, or the modern men who seek to change them?

    I wouldn't DREAM of evangelizing a JFW or a Mor(m)on w/o asking the HOLY SPIRIT for a big dose of wordsmithing!

    But...ARE THEY CHRISTIAN? I don't think so....
     
  14. Jarthur001

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    This is what a always bring up...and for the life of me..i do not see why JWs do not see this on their own.

    They think WE worship a angel...and it is michael as stated above.


    yet they agree that Jesus made the world...
    they believe Jesus died for our sins..not on a cross..but a stake..(whatever)
    they left up michael as doing all these things..and more.

    now...who is worshipping a angel? ..is it us?...or them?

    we say this is God...God could only save...so He came himself. We worship God...and God only.

    anyway.. this is all i talk about with them. i think the cross and the stake is a side track. The main thing is...is Christ God? this is our only hope. If this falls..then the cross may as well be the stake


    In Christ...James
     
  15. Jarthur001

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    yes...i agree. If you went forward with this..i can see one time when you may need help...for her (the JW lady)..to say..i'll help you. She meaning well as far as helping...but also knowing this... to her means a chance to teach JW doctrine.

    ooooo now that is scary to think about.
     
  16. robycop3

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    James, I believe the Greek uses its "stauros"(stake thing) in a metaphorical way, same as they said "xulon" for cross, a tree or something made from a tree, and WE cay "computer" when our machines are rarely used to compute or to do math. The largest component of the cross is the upright, which is a large stake; hence some people called it a "stauros".

    It's well-known that the Romans of that time & place used the cross as is often depicted for crucifixion in that time & place. Usually, the crosspiece was fitted into the upright by a mortise, the vic having to have carried the crosspiece at least one "stadium" (about 600 feet)in distance for the purpose of disgrace.(Given the abuse Jesus took beforehand, He woulda needed to use His Divine power to have carried HIS cross.) The condemned was nailed hands & feet to the cross, which had been placed before the hole it was to rest in, often his wrists were tied so his hands wouldn't tear free of the nails, and he was then "lifted up" so the base of the cross dropped into the hole; it was then braced by wedges driven between cross and hole.

    Another modern analogy of stake=cross is when we say "wheels" for "automobile".

    BTW, James, how good will your area FOOTBALL TEAMS be? The U of C? The Mountain Lions? The Cougars? Nitro? St. Albans? (I live near Chesapeake, Ohio!)
     

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