More on Ordination

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Tom Butler, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    A young man who grew up in our church was minister of music at another church. His church asked us to ordain him. We did.

    Should we have?

    What's your opinion about ordaining men who are not going to be pastors or deacons, but serve in other capacities on church staffs?
     
  2. Zenas

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    First thing, I am curious as to why the young man's present church didn't ordain him. Why did he have to go back to your church to be ordained?

    Now, the hard part. Does scripture allow for the ordination of women? I don't think so. Yet there are women serving everywhere in these church staff capacities. Our church even had a woman as minister of music once. If women can serve in these capacities without being ordained, why should men serving in the same capacity be ordained?

    Therefore, if the young man aspires to be a pastor, he should be ordained. However, if his vocation is solely as music minister, or youth minister, or education minister, etc., then he should not be.
     
  3. Tom Butler

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    To tell you the truth, I don't know the answer. I'm guessing it was a courtesy to his home church who knew him better than others.

    I'm not for ordaining women, obviously, and the ordination of male staff people opens a can of worms, for sure.
     
  4. jaigner

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    Ordination ideally is for a specific purpose, not some general license for ministry.

    Why can't women be ordained? Because all those ordained in the Acts passage are men? No. There has to be a better argument. That's not at all normative coming out of that historical context.

    I believe women can serve in any roles as men do, but assuming for a minute that I didn't believe that, there is no reason a woman can't be ordained to do the job that she's called to do. She would obviously, by nature of the complementarian mindset, not be allowed do any of those things that people don't like women doing.
     
  5. John Toppass

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    Where is this biblical??????? There are offices in the church that are solely to be filled by men. That is biblical. :BangHead:
     
  6. freeatlast

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    There is no right or wrong in that situation. The scriptures are silent on such things. I hold that no one who is ordained should be allowed to carry that to another church and that includes Pastors as well as deacons. This ordaining thing is totally out of hand. If a person moves and is a deacon in one church they should not be accepted as a deacon in the next just because they were ordained in the past church. If the new church needs a deacon and they feel this man is acceptable after proving himself in that church then he should be ordained to the new church if they require ordination. The same with Pastors.
     
  7. RevGKG

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    What is your definition of ordination and why should one be ordained?
     
    #7 RevGKG, Nov 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2010
  8. RevGKG

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    What was the reason the young man desired ordination?
     
  9. jaigner

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    That wasn't the thrust of my post. I have explained my position elsewhere and discussed the biblical root of my convictions.
     
  10. Tom Butler

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    I'm not sure that he did. This was a long time ago, and my memory is fuzzy. I think it was the church that wanted to ordain him.
     
  11. sag38

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    here is no right or wrong in that situation. The scriptures are silent on such things. I hold that no one who is ordained should be allowed to carry that to another church and that includes Pastors as well as deacons. This ordaining thing is totally out of hand. If a person moves and is a deacon in one church they should not be accepted as a deacon in the next just because they were ordained in the past church. If the new church needs a deacon and they feel this man is acceptable after proving himself in that church then he should be ordained to the new church if they require ordination. The same with Pastors.


    From one side of your mouth you proclaim that the Bible is silent. From the other you make a pretty strong statement. But, you are entitled to your Biblically silent proclamation.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Ordination is to vocational Christian ministry. It is the local church's "stamp of approval" on the elder as fulfilling the qualifications of I Tim 3 and Tit 1.

    It is a "once-for-all-time" act, only to be revoked if the one ordained fails to maintain the biblical standards/requirements.

    In our Baptist heritage, the local church acted upon recommendation of a council of ordained elders who thoroughly questioned the candidate as to salvation, calling, convictions, doctrines, ministry, et al.

    Deacons are not ordained (no biblical support for such). Of course, neither are women (again, no biblical support) or unqualified.

    In the op, I would never consider a "music man" qualified to be an elder solely based on his music; it would have to be an all-encompassing life and burden for ministry.

    And I would not have the church ordain someone not actively ministering (and proving his qualifications) in my own church.
     
  13. jaigner

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    Still, there is no overarching biblical prohibition for either. The examples we have were seemingly ad hoc constructs meant for a particular time and place.
     
  14. stilllearning

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    Where is he today?

    The Church shouldn’t give out ordination certificates, as party favors.
     
  15. Crucified in Christ

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    If this church desired such a thing, they should have done it themselves. What does growing up in a church have to do with serving in a different church later on? If he was called directly out of your church to serve in another and the calling church desired ordination, then it would have at least opened the debate...although I would not have been for it even under those circumstances. Still, I am totally baffled at a church ordaining someone under the conditions you list.
     
  16. Crucified in Christ

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    I agree with you that this is a real problem and the Bible warns us against it. We should not be too quick to lay hands upon a person; they should prove themselves first. I believe that we take a responsibility for those we ordain, thus we better be as sure as possible that we are taking it seriously. This is why ordination belongs in the church that can best judge a person's calling from the Lord.
     
  17. Tom Butler

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    He is still involved in the music ministry.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    Ah, wrong, but thanks for playing! :)

    There is biblical mandate to ordain male elders. This gives church authority to the elders to act on behalf of the body. Actual verses! Actual examples!

    There is NO biblical mandate to ordain a "deacon" (who cares about authority of a servant??). Not one verse, not even an implication.

    There is NO biblical mandate to ordain a woman as elder. She could not fulfill the requirements carefully listed in Tit 1 and I Tim 3.

    No need to try to add in women or deacons to the clear Biblical teaching on ordination. That twists the teaching and tries to make it pc today. God's position on MALE leadership, headship, et al is clear to all in the Word.
     
  19. Old Union Brother

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    Are you sure. I believe the following scriptures in Acts show that deacons were ordained:
    6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

    6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

    6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

    6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

    These chosen men had to set before the Apostles to be examined and then the apostles laid hands on them. This sounds like an ordination to me.

    And in 1st Timothy 3 just as qualifications for a bishop are laid out so are the qualifications of a deacon. :praying:
     
    #19 Old Union Brother, Nov 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2010
  20. Jerome

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    An excerpt from the 1689 London Baptist Confession, especially for those who supposedly "hold" to it:
     

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