More on the Love of God

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, Apr 29, 2003.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
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  2. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Any interpretations that compromise John 3:16 has to be ruled as doctrinal error. God's love is infinite. For something to be 'infinite' it has to be endless, immeasurably great or extensive. God's love is infinite which means that it is subject to no limitation or external determination.

    Calvinism compromises the limitless love of God toward His lost creation, when it suggests that His love reaches only His hand-picked elect souls via the "Effectual Call." This quasi-theology then steps one step beyond and tells its listeners that His love turns into hate toward the non-elect because His general call to them is 'ineffectual.' The word ineffectual means 'not producing an intended effect or not capable of performing efficiently or as expected. This general call or ineffectual call is unproductive not because God does not want to save everyone, [I Timothy 2:4 & 6; Titus 2:11] but because allegedly He has decided not to be merciful to the less fortunate non-elect souls. [Romans 9:16 & 18] Please, show us from Romans chapter nine where it clearly indicates that God has divided the souls of all time into the saved and damned. This is merely the eisogesis and intellectual liberty of Saint Augustine and his distant protégé, John Calvin.

    Calvin has limited the Divine love of God through his 'external determination' {notice paragraph one the last sentence} of what he thought Almighty God was thinking.

    Matthew 13:51 a & b. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Frogman

    Frogman
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    Come on fellows, this amounts to about one page of reading, if the font is too small do what I do and copy and past it into MS Works Word Processor or something, surely John Gill can excite discussion of this topic among us. There are those here who are in such a hurry to forward their opinions that Sovereign Grace believers deny the love of God let us discuss this writing, brother Gill is not among us to cry foul if you accuse him of heresy; if he were he wouldn't cry anyway, IMHO, he would address you to the face as it were. That aside however I will begin the discussion with the introduction.

    </font>
    • Next to the attributes which belong to God, as an intelligent Spirit, to his understanding and will, may be considered, those which may be called "Affections"; for though, properly speaking, there are none in God, he being a most pure and simple act, free from all confusion and disorder; yet there being some things said and done by him, which are similar to affections in intelligent beings, they are ascribed to him; as love, pity, hatred, anger, &c. from which must be removed everything that is carnal, sensual, or has any degree of imperfection in it; and among these, Love stands in the first place; and this enters so much into the nature of God, that it is said, "God is love" (1 John 4:8, 16).

      John Gill certainly concedes that love is a Divine attribute, but note his discussion here, how that love of God is viewed as being so much more pure than that you or I can feel. I am content to remove all carnal, sensual, or any other imperfect influence from the attribute of God's Love.</font>
    • for though, properly speaking, there are none in God, he being a most pure and simple act, free from all confusion and disorder;

      See how that to compare the Love of God to that emotional attribute engaged upon by humans is described as being impossible, for in God there is no confusion nor disorder; in man we abound in such chaos.</font>
    • he being a most pure and simple act, free from all confusion and disorder;

      Here again the so called 'free-will' of man is denied simply by comparison to his creator who is truly free from all confusion and disorder, note the order found here first is said of him:
      'he being a most pure and simple act,'

      In this there is not found the most minute (long vowel sound), resemblance to the celebrated attributes of man, never does there enter into the mind of God an impure thought, desire, emotion, nor is there found within him the source of any impure action.</font>
    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
  4. Frogman

    Frogman
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    Sorry brother Ray,

    I was writing my post as you posted. I noticed you mentioned Titus 2.11, do you have a comment concerning Titus 2.11, if so I started a thread on that passage as well; I would like to see how you can twist the language to make the word 'appeared' to mean that all men are offered an 'equal' (though really what would be an 'effectual') call to salvation.

    Thanks for your input, BTW, I have already presented the scripture from Tim. 2 weighed in the Balance of God's Word.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  5. Frogman

    Frogman
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    You some how equate mercy with Grace unto salvation. I don't understand. Please show me how that the above scriptures are the only parts of the Bible you folks read and also why so. Scripture is it's own best commentary and must be read in whole to get the whole understanding and then this is impossible unless God sends the Holy Spirit to bless our study, so further proof that he who searches the hearts of men knows the motive for engaging in such study and thus provides no light when the heart of man engages in anything less than for the purpose of Glorifying God.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  6. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Frogman,

    I thought that Romans 9 was a Calvinists 16 inch gun on their battleship called, Calvinism. For all the vibrato I did not hear anything from you about this pivotal chapter. Apparently, there is nothing in this passage to warrant God's autocratic election forte.

    I don't want to think that you believe that only you and your camp are sitting in the resplendent light of Divine interpretation, or that only Calvinists are glorifying God through their investigation of Divine issues. God will get to us all and will judge us according to His standards.

    One does not have to be a Rhodes scholar to understand that Calvinism has its own inbred, bias. Thanks to the renowned Roman Catholic scholar, St. Augustine.
     
  7. Frogman

    Frogman
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    Thank God I am not a Rhodes Scholar.

    If you want to discuss Romans 9, we can do that also, we can go at it just like all the other debates that have been started here, begin with Scripture and degrade into the flesh (myself included). As soon as my time is freed up more than what it currently is I will see if I can begin to apply myself to more in-depth presentations of the Scriptures.

    I care nothing for Augustine, but I do see one thing that he had to his good, when he entered Britian he desired to forbid the believers who gathered about him from continuing in their pagan religions, yet he was encouraged by the Papacy to incorporate such pagan observances in order to make the presentation of the Gospel more acceptable to man. It is this 'making the Gospel more acceptable to man' that I am opposed to. If the Holy Spirit does not make it acceptable to man, what can I do?

    Bro. Dallas
     

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