More People in Heaven Than in Hell

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by KenH, Aug 15, 2002.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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    From chapter 16 of Charles Spurgeon's Autobiography:

    Think of the numbers upon whom God has bestowed His grace already. Think of the countless hosts in Heaven: if thou wert introduced there to-day, thou wouldst find it as easy to tell the stars, or the sands of the sea, as to count the multitudes that are before the throne even now. They have come from the East, and from the West, from the North, and from the South, and they are sitting down with Abraham, and with Isaac, and with Jacob in the Kingdom of God; and beside those in Heaven, think of the saved ones on earth. Blessed be God, His elect on earth are to be counted by millions, I believe, and the days are coming, brighter days than these, when there shall be multitudes upon multitudes brought to know the Savior, and to rejoice in Him. The Father’s love is not for a few only, but for an exceeding great company. “A great multitude, which no man could number,” will be found in Heaven. A man can reckon up to very high figures; set to work your Newtons, your mightiest calculators, and they can count great numbers, but God and God alone can tell the multitude of His redeemed. I believe there will be more in Heaven than in hell. If anyone asks me why I think so, I answer, because Christ, in everything, is to “have the pre-eminence,” and I cannot conceive how He could have the pre-eminence if there are to be more in the dominions of Satan than in Paradise. Moreover, I have never read that there is to be in hell a great multitude, which no man could number. I rejoice to know that the souls of all infants, as soon as they die, speed their way to Paradise. Think what a multitude there is of them! Then there are already in Heaven unnumbered myriads of the spirits of just men made perfect-the redeemed of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues up till now; and there are better times coming, when the religion of Christ shall be universal; when —

    “He shall reign from pole to pole,
    With illimitable sway,”

    when whole kingdoms shall bow down before Him, and nations shall be born in a day, and in the thousand years of the great millennial state there will be enough saved to make up all the deficiencies of the thousands of years that have gone before. Christ shall be Master everywhere, and His praise shall be sounded in every land. Christ shall have the pre-eminence at last; His train shall be far larger than that which shall attend the chariot of the grim monarch of hell.

    [ August 15, 2002, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  2. tyndale1946

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    Charles you took the words right out of my mouth!... Brother Glen :D
     
  3. Ray Berrian

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    I agree with you that there will be countless millions/billions of people in Heaven. One must also balance our facts with Matthew 7:14. By comparison more people will be in Hell than Heaven. God even said in the O.T. that 'Hell hath enlarged itself.' Something to think about . . . .
     
  4. KenH

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    I am not familiar with that verse off of the top of my head.

    Ken
     
  5. ScottEmerson

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    I am not familiar with that verse off of the top of my head.

    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]Isaiah 5:14 is the verse that Ray is quoting.
     
  6. ScottEmerson

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    Spurgeon's autobiography is great and all, but it lacks Scripture, which I would like to see more of. He says that all infants go to Paradise, which isn't in Scripture, and that through some sort of "pre-eminence" Christ will have more souls in Heaven than Satan in Hell - both of these are not strictly from Scripture, but his own musings.

    Let's face it, honestly.

    1. There will be a very, very large number of people in Heaven.
    2. No where does it say that there will be more people in heaven than in Hell.
    3. In fact, Christ clearly said that "many are called, few are chosen."
    4. Christ also talks about the wide road that leads to destruction, and the narrow road that leads to life.

    From such facts, and without Scriptural proof to the contrary, there will be more people in Hell than in Heaven.
     
  7. KenH

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    I thank God that I have an eschatology of hope for all of creation instead of one of despair and pessimism. :D

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  8. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic
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    Do you think Jesus had an eschatology "of despair and pessimism" to make the statements He did {quoted above}?
     
  9. ScottEmerson

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    Your eschatology seems to be merely philosophical in merit and not Scriptural. As CC said, Christ made those statements for a reason, and your eschatology stands in stark contrast from His.

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  10. Dualhunter

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    I'm assuming that he holds pre-trib pre-millenial dispensational views. If you look at his statement without considering that, it is no surprise that it makes no sense to you. During this current dispensation, many are called but few are chosen, however during the Millenial rule, Satan will be bound, and justice will be swift and so it is believed that more people will turn to God than reject Him (because Christ is present ruling with a rod of iron). Based on Isaiah 65, people will live long ages again. It is because of the lack of war until the final rebellion at the end of the Millenium that it is believed that there will be more people in heaven than in hell. Apparently there were more people born in the last couple centuries than in all previous centuries and more people have died than in all previous centuries. Now imagine a thousand years with major causes of death such war, famine and disease removed and think of how many people could be born during that period.

    This isn't meant to convince anybody of anything, just show you what is probably the background behind the statement that Ken made about views of eschatology.
     
  11. KenH

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    Thanks for the defense. [​IMG] But actually I am a postmillennialist - same result but a different scenario to get there. Charles Spurgeon did not express an eschatological position as we identify them today, but by piecing together remarks here and there, a case can be made that he was what we now call an historical premillennialist.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  12. KenH

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    No, but isolated verses should not be taken out of the canonical context. There is nothing in the context of that verse that indicates that it is a permanent state of affairs. Obviously, at that point, and throughout the earthly ministry of Christ Jesus, very few Jews believed in Him.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  13. ScottEmerson

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    In other words, you still have no Scriptural basis to back this point up - merely a philosophical one. There is nothing in the verse that states it is a temporal one. If you believe that the verse is simply a temporal one, how do you differentiate between that one and the Sermon on the Mount, say?
     
  14. Kiffin

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    Revelation 4-5, 7 state that the number in Heaven is beyound counting. Interesting is that Rev 14 and 20 when describing Hell do not desribe a multitude beyound counting...possibly implying that Heaven will be fuller than Hell.
     
  15. KenH

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    Interesting that you mention the Sermon on the Mount.

    "Fulfillment of prophecies means simply that the reality promised in the prophetic word becomes an actual event in human history. What then is the fulfillment of the law? Obviously this fulfillment happens when the righteousness articulated in the law similarly becomes reality in human history. The law is an articulation, under the specific circumstances in which Israel lived, of the righteousness that will cover the face of the earth. Therefore, fulfillment of the law entails a realization in history of the righteousness articulated in the law. To bring that about was the intention and archievement of Jesus' mission." - David E. Holwerda, Jesus and Israel: One Covenant or Two?, pp.131-32, on Matthew 5:17

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  16. Bible-belted

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    You gotta love those shallow sterotypes...

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  17. KenH

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    Yea, I know. This is a bulletin board. Bulletins are not theological tomes. [​IMG]

    The deep stuff is at www.spurgeon.org. :D

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  18. Bible-belted

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    Yea, I know. This is a bulletin board. Bulletins are not theological tomes. [​IMG]

    The deep stuff is at www.spurgeon.org. :D

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite
    </font>[/QUOTE]No, BBs are not theologicl tomes. That doesn't mean they have to be so grossly inaccurate.

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  19. KenH

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    Oh, you know the final percentage of the entire human race that God has elected to salvation?

    Unless, you know that, how can you state that someone else's position is inaccurate. I don't know of a Scripture verse that the states the percentage. We are all basing our opinion based on the presuppositions we bring to the table on this particular subject.

    So, have fun. Yes, theological can be fun when it comes to non-essential opinions. :D

    Ken
    A Happy Spurgeonite

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  20. Bible-belted

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    Oh, you know the final percentage of the entire human race that God has elected to salvation?

    Unless, you know that, how can you state that someone else's position is inaccurate. I don't know of a Scripture verse that the states the percentage. We are all basing our opinion based on the presuppositions we bring to the table on this particular subject.

    So, have fun. Yes, theological can be fun when it comes to non-essential opinions. :D

    Ken
    A Happy Spurgeonite
    </font>[/QUOTE]Ken,

    The innacuracy I was referring to was the portrayal of non-postmillenial escahtologies as being pessimistic and all that.

    But about the percentage...

    There is enough about the narrow gate and all that which indicates that, despite the fact there will be an innumerable number in heaven, that multitude will still be less than half the size it could be for my statisfaction.

    So soteriologically, if not eschatologically, I guess you could call me a pessimist. :D

    [ August 19, 2002, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     

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