Muslim's

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Willow 2, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. Willow 2

    Willow 2
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    I was just wandering what other people thought about the Muslim's beleif's...

    How do you feel about it and have you researched this beleif?

    And also out of all the world witch religon do you feel is the most followed?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Johnv

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    My belief about Muslims is the same as any other religion. Christians are not allowed to judge a person's salvation. I've known Muslims who are faithful and positive members of suciety. My neighbor, in fact, is a Muslim (who, btw, has has an interest as of late about learning about my beliefs in Christianity [​IMG] ) .

    As I did on another post, I prefer to view other religions as per Paul's example with the Athenians that, those who faithfully seek to worship God as they know him, are, in ignorance, worshipping God. Paul did not chastise them for worship of a "false god". Instead, Paul praised them for their faithfulness, imperfect and incomplete though it was (which he then used as an opportunity for evangelism).

    However, as I said elsewhere, worship and salvation are two completely different issues. It's always important for us to share Christ with our non-Christian brethren, so that they may be saved through Him.
     
  3. 3AngelsMom

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    I have a very close friend/ co worker who is Muslim. She is an awesome lady.

    I have studied it in depth, it is similar to Judaism in many ways, but then it has characteristics that are completely different from any other religion.

    They don't believe Jesus is the Son of God. (which mirrors todays Judiasm)

    They are very interesting people. I watched a three part series on PBS Called "Empire of Faith- Islam", which shed some serious light on the History of the Muslims. They were pioneers of technology for a long time.

    Check your local library they might have it.

    Really good series.

    Oh, and out of all the religions in the world, I think the Islamic faith is the most popular. Some might say the Catholic church, but there are different rites within the Catholic church now, and their numbers can't be lumped together for the sake of statistics.

    That wouldn't be 'real' statistics.

    For the most part either you are a Muslim or you aren't. You can't be of a 'different kind' of Muslim.

    There are Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Non Denominationals (the ultimate oxymoron), and the other fringe groups of what we call 'Protestants'.

    Then there are people like Singer and I, who aren't affiliated with any church.

    SO as far as 'pure' religion, that can be counted, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Islam came out on top.

    Who knows, we could all be wrong, and they could be the one's who are right. ;)

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     
  4. Johnv

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    Actually, that's probably debatable. The problem is, Islam doesn't have denominations like we identify with Christianity. The most common Muslims are Sunnis and Shiites (for all intent and purpose, these are "mainline Muslims"), but there are others that the mainline Muslims consider heretical or not true Muslims, like Sufism, for example. It would be similar to JW's being culturally Christian, but we dont' consider them Christian in regards to primary doctrine.

    There's a similar situation in Hinduism. Sikhism and Janism are forms of Hinduism, but many mainline Hindus don't consider them part of Hinduism per se.

    Jews, otoh, are more similar to denominationalization than these. For example, there are Reformed Jews, Orthodox Jews, and Chasidic Jews. Then there are the Messianic Jews. Some consider the Messianics as Jews, some consider them Christians.
     
  5. 3AngelsMom

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    JohnV,

    Then that kind of furthers my point, don't you think?

    If they aren't TRULY Muslim, then they are something else, i.e. Shiite, etc.

    If you are a follower of Mohammed, and read the Koran, you are Islamic, and therefore Muslim.

    What is different about these 'fringe' groups?

    -Kelly
     
  6. Singer

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    Then there are people like Singer and I, who aren't affiliated with any church.

    But I thought you were associated, Kelly.
     
  7. 3AngelsMom

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    Haven't been for a while.

    What can I say?

    You inspire me. [​IMG]

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     
  8. Singer

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    Thanks Kelly.........

    We, as believers, are of the same Spirit and the same family of God in spite of our differences and neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor church affiliation or attendance nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    1 Corinthians 12:11
    But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


    Thanks, Sister [​IMG]
     
  9. mioque

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    Digging up my basic knowledge of Islam from my mental attick....

    I have to disgree with Kelly here. For practical purposes there are different 'denominations' within Islam. The faith is as splintered into factions as all other world religions.
    At last count (going from memory here) there are about 14 different schools of thought/ styles of faith (and also some completely new religions) originating from within Islam.
    The Azali's, Bahai's, Ahmadija Islam, Nation of Islam, Jaziedi's and the Sikhs are considered either heretical or different faiths altogether.
    The Sunnis (subdivided among other things into a number of legal schools), Shi'ites (subdivided into 5 distinct branches at least) and the Charidjites are considered the real mainstream Moslims.
    The Roman Catholic Church is still the largest single religious rganisation on this globe. Mostly because Islam is very loosely organized. The run of the mill Moslim from Marocco, can probably tell you that he is a Sunni, but he wouldn't know the name of the legal school that decided the fine details of the way that he practices his faith.
     
  10. john6:63

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    I’ve come to the conclusion it’s a false religion. I’ve studied or have taken classes from both a Baptist and Non-denominational churches and both have done really well at exposing Islam. Go to any library and read the collection of books call the History of civilization. There is quite a bit of information on Muhammad and his establishment of Islam.

    The Qur’an isn’t written in any order and it’s really hard to follow. You can go to any bookstore and buy one really cheap. But, the theme is clear.

    I’m going off memory too here, but some of the Qur’an was written while Muhammed was just starting the religion (once he found a suitable god to include, which was the moon god allah) someone wrote (Muhammad was illiterate) some surahs and Hadith, which were friendly towards Christians and the Jews faiths. You will notice in countries where the Muslim faith is in the minority, the Muslims will exclusively promote these surahs of the Qur’an. The latter part of Muhammad’s surahs show a different outlook towards Christians and the Jewish faiths, simply b/c the Jews refused to conform to this new religion. The Jews remember what happened to their ancestors, when they worshipped false Gods! In countries where Islam is in the majority, the Sharia Law rules and Christians and Jews alike are persecuted relentlessly, even to the death.

    A simple reading of the Qur’an (not even all of it) will paint two different pictures between the characteristics of the God of Christianity and the moon god allah of the Qur’an.


    If I remember correctly Islam is the largest faith, due in part by the sword of Islam.

    PS. I may get some grief about referring to allah as the pagan moon god and not the same God of Christianity. So I pose a question. If the god of Islam is the same God of Christianity, why do the countries where Islam is in the majority, why can’t they accept the Christian faith? There the same god right?
     
  11. mioque

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    Actually the word Allah, simply means: the God in Arabic. Arabic Christians also use the word to describe the God of the Bible.
     
  12. Johnv

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    You're quite right. Arab-speaking Christians and Jews refer to God as Allah, and did so long before the advent of Islam.
     
  13. Johnv

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    Most countries with an Islamic majority are theocracies, or Islamic Republics. However, in governmentally secular countries like Iraq, Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship freely and openly.

    But there's a bigger picture. Any country, it seems, that melds one specific religion into its law results in persecution of one sort or another of its inhabitants that are not of that religion. Even Israel has seen its share of oppression of non-Jews (Muslims and Christians often encounter bias in the areas of education, housing, employment and social services, according to a State Department study released last month) Meanwhile, in Iran, even Sunni and Sufi Muslims are oppressed. And, in our own history, our original colonists left other countries (England and Holland) where they were religiously oppressed. Prior to our independence and Constitution, some religious groups were often discouraged in states with a different denominational majority. In a few extreme cases, people were killed (Salem witch trials) for merely the suggestion that they were unsaved.

    Even in some secular countries, there is insitutionalized oppression. In Belgium, the existence of "sects" are discouraged. Germany continues to heavily monitor the Church of Scientology, even though its members have never been found to be involved in any illegal activity. France has a law that officially dissolves certain religious groups. Additionally, France is considering a policy that would forbid the wearing of headscarves in public.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    Remember however that the god they are referring to is a very different God than the God of Scripture. The God of Scripture was incarnated in the perseon of Jesus Christ. Christ made it clear that if you do not accept him, then you are not worshipping the true God.

    Muslims may be kind and decent people. But they are adherents of a false religion.
     
  15. DHK

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    Christianity and Islam are diametrically opposed one to the other. They both worship different Gods.
    Here is the real relation of Islam to Christianity:

    • Churches Destroyed, Families Displaced by Religious Conflict in Nigeria - Worthy News
    Leaders of the Christian community in the northern state of Jigawa, Nigeria, report that Muslim extremists burned down 10 churches and over 100 church-owned properties in November during unprovoked attacks against Christians in the town of Kazaure.

    • Protestant Pastor Assassinated in Pakistan - Worthy News
    A Protestant pastor in Pakistan’s Punjab province was murdered in the early hours of January 5, just minutes after he left his home to catch a train to Lahore.

    • One Killed in Egypt Army Raid on Children Centre - Worthy News/ANS
    One employee was killed and about eight others, including a nun, wounded when the Egyptian army attacked a Christian centre for mentally and physically handicapped children and orphans early Monday, January 5, a human rights watch-dogs said.

    • Muslim Extremists Mount Attacks in Northern Nigeria - Worthy News
    Police and military units in the northeastern state of Yobe, Nigeria, ended a violent attempt by Muslim militants to carve out an Islamic Republic there.

    Christians all over the world are persecuted by Muslims. All of the above are taken just from today's issue of Worthy News. There are many more entries than just these. The two religions cannot exist peaceably beside each other. Islam has a political agenda of being the one world religion. It is the fastest growing relgion in the world, in North America, and in America itself.
    DHK
     
  16. 3AngelsMom

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    DHK,

    As much as I'd like to just out right disagree with you (it's just fun I guess [​IMG] ), I'm going to have to say that you are right on in your last remark!

    Even the 'peaceful' Muslims have an agenda.

    It is world domination. Mohammedian thinking keeps them that way.

    They truly do feel that they are an extention of the true faith of the One True God.

    They don't think they are worshipping any other God, than the one that created them.

    Funny thing is, how'd they get here if they don't believe in Jesus?

    They believe 'Allah' created them, but yet deny that we were created THROUGH Jesus!

    How can they be an extention of the "One True God's" 'true' religion, if they don't believe what the ONE True God tells them?

    Did you get that? [​IMG]

    =Kelly
     
  17. Harley4Him

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    And the proof of this statement is ... ?

    Just like Christians.

    Neither do Christians.

    Same way everyone else who doesn't believe in Jesus did.

    Well, yeah, the second statement follows logically from the first.

    They wonder the same thing about us.


    Yes.
     
  18. John3v36

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    LOST
    NEED CHRIST
    *** ACT 4:12 ***
     
  19. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    This is a true story.


    .........by Rick Mathes
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Allah or Jesus?
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the
    &gt; training
    &gt; &gt; session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; their belief systems.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for
    &gt; &gt; questions and answers.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and
    &gt; &gt; asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war]
    &gt; &gt; against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel,
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in
    &gt; &gt; heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an
    &gt; &gt; infidel?"
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; There was no disagreement with my statements and,
    &gt; withouthesitation,
    &gt; &gt; he replied, "Non-believers!"
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All
    &gt; &gt; followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not
    &gt; of
    &gt; &gt; your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; The expression on his face changed &gt;from one of authority and
    &gt; command
    &gt; &gt; to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine
    &gt; &gt; Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith
    &gt; &gt; or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Heaven!"
    &gt; &gt; The Imam was speechless.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you
    &gt; and
    &gt; &gt; your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me
    &gt; &gt; ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you
    &gt; to
    &gt; &gt; kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love
    &gt; you
    &gt; &gt; because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in
    &gt; shame.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of
    &gt; &gt; the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's
    &gt; way
    &gt; &gt; of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the
    &gt; &gt; Muslim's beliefs. **Everyone in the US should be required to read
    &gt; this,
    &gt; &gt; but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU,
    &gt; &gt; there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; to all your email contacts.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known
    &gt; &gt; leader in prison ministry.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Posted simply for your consideration and thought.

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam
    &gt;
     
  20. Melanie

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    I thought I would chuck in my pennys worth here.There are a lot of Muslims in my neighbourhood. They go shopping in my supermarket. The mums kiss their little ones when they fall down,the dads pick the kids up when they are naughty and are pesky in the aisles, they want jobs so they can put food on the table and have friends round for parties etc., they want peace to educate their kids and to watch them grow up.
    Like any other religion there are fanatics who twist the religion to suit their desires, but mostly these are ordinary folk who want to just get on with their lives. [​IMG]

    I personally think the God of their focus sounds different to mine but God is a Divine Being and I for one do not pretend to know the working of this divinity so I guess I have to wait until I am with him and I might understand a little more
     

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