Must a Marriage be legally licensed to be accepted by God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jprieto, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. jprieto

    jprieto
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    There is a couple who took a marriage covenant before God ... but such is not yet registered in a human court (licensed) nor yet made publicly via a human ceremony (wedding).

    They live together and are loyal to each other. They serve the Lord with a sincere heart, feel a burden to serve the needy, and urge to be in the ministry full-time.

    Because of them many have received the Lord, some have returned to God, and they continue daily in prayer and preaching.

    Now here is the problem:

    Most local christians and church leader do not endorse nor support the ministry of this couple. The reason is that they are NOT legally registered in a marriage court.

    And...

    A few christian feel that they should be supported and not stopped simply because of a legality.

    What say you?

    Should we allow these to run a ministry? Or you feel that how dare they serve God before getting legally married?

    State your case, backed up by bible verses.

    Please. I really want to know how the Bible stand on this issue.
     
    #1 jprieto, Sep 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2012
  2. Salty

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    There is a couple who took a drivers test before God ... but such is not yet registered in a human DMV (licensed) nor yet made publicly via a human drivers license.

    They drive together and are loyal to each other. They serve the Lord with a sincere heart, feel a burden to serve the needy by taking them to the store, doctors apts, ect.

    By being given a ride to church many have received the Lord, , others have returned to God, and they continue daily in prayer and preaching.

    Now here is the problem:

    Most local christians and church leader do not endorse nor support the ministry of this couple. The reason is that they are NOT legally licensed to drive nor is their vehicle registered at DMV. Their car has not passed inspection as they belive the Lord will protect them. In fact they have "license plates" that say "Heaven"

    And...

    A few christian feel that they should be supported and not stopped simply because of a legality.

    What say you?

    Should we allow these to run a ministry? Or you feel that how dare they serve God before getting legally licensed to drive?

    State your case, backed up by bible verses.

    Please. I really want to know how the Bible stand on this issue.
     
    #2 Salty, Sep 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2012
  3. Salty

    Salty
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    If you think I am being a bit facetious on post # 2, it was based partly on a true story. Read the link I did know Farmer Brown before he was promoted to glory. In fact, I used to run the board for him when he was on the radio. (since his passing, the program went dark). And yes, he did sit on a milk can when doing his show!
     
  4. mckestev

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    To some extent I would say that God has allowed that what marriage ceremonies are culturally defined. For example, in Genesis Isaac just simply took Rebekah into his tent and made her his wife. By the time of Jesus wedding ceremonies were more developed, for example the wedding in Cana.

    That being said, in our culture this typically means a ceremony performed by an authorized officiant. The other issue at hand is the way it looks to the world: like two people living together outside of Holy Matrimony. Plus in my mind there is a "render unto Caesar" issue here.

    Personally I would not be ok with it. If they are truly committed to each other in a covenant before God, why not make it legal?
     
  5. Jerome

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    If their marriage was formed in a common-law jurisdiction, they are legally married.

    How did all these 'concerned' Christian sisters and brothers happen to run across this information anyway?
     
  6. jprieto

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    This couple started a ministry that mentors new believer, but they refer them to a church near them as an encouragement to be part of a local group of believers.

    This couple is well known in the city.

    They just refuse to make it legal to make a point.

    Christ allowed his followers to work on the Sabbath. He even healed on the Sabbath.

    Before that there was no scripture making mention of any exception.

    But Christ wanted to make a point that we are to look at the heart, at the intent of an action, rather than a ritual, a tradition, a ceremonial custom.

    This couple want to know why christian leaders in the area go out of their way to discret them simply on this legality, and no other reason!

    Peter was part of those christian favoring compliance with ceremonial traditions, but Paul confronted him in front of everybody and corrected him.

    Peter was more into qualifying people for the ministry, Paul favored more embracing them.

    Who planted more churches: Peter or Paul?

    Who created more Christians: Peter or Paul?

    Personally, I will NEVER EVER endorse the discrediting of ANYONE wishing to serve the Lord ... simply based on a legality.

    I know is not cool these days to be supportive of each other.

    I know local christians and leaders will not allow nor support the ministry of this couple if they have a say in it. After all, how dare they engage in a sincere service to God without getting legally married! Let's stop them, quick!

    Wait..... oh, no.......

    Romans 14:12-13
    "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way."

    This is no good. We cant judge them, and we cant block them!

    Man, if we cant make their lives miserable, then what good is it being a christian?
     
    #6 jprieto, Sep 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2012
  7. jprieto

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    we are not talking about the breaking of any local law, for no law borbid living together without marriage (but correct me on this if Im wrong).

    If the secular legal system has no issue on this, why then should believers?

    driving without a license is breaking the law, something Christ would never endorse

    but if and when a law passes that forbid teaching the bible (as is the case in some countries) .... would you still require abiding by the law before engaging in ministry?

    what say you?
     
  8. Oldtimer

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    Why?

    Suspect there's a "rest of the story" involved here.

    Perhaps .... No I won't go there, as speculation can cause more harm than good.

    Uhmmmm......... Isn't that just what this man and woman are allowing to leaven their witness?
     
  9. John of Japan

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    Personally I don't understand this. By simply registering (not even havin a ceremony as I understand it) they avoid distractions to God's work. I mean, it's tough enough serving God and running a ministry without having a distraction like "They're not legally married!" :confused:

    I'm reminded of Kent Hoving, who is a good man with a ministry being used of the Lord, but got messed up in tax trouble (thinking the government had no right to tax in his situation). Now he's in jail and where is his ministry?
     
  10. Aaron

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    The short answer is yes, they are married in God's eyes.
     
  11. Aaron

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    The DMV is not a divine institution.
     
  12. Aaron

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    A Marriage license isn't "simply registering." It is a contract in which the state becomes a third party to the marriage.

    I did not overstate that. That is exactly the situation. It isn't that the state can simply enforce the contract, the state is a party to the contract. Some couples cannot stomach the idea, and for conscience sake do not apply for a state license.
     
  13. John of Japan

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    Thanks for the explanation. (In Japan you simply register.) Still don't understand it. I'd far rather just serve the Lord--and I don't see how the marriage contract then gives the State any legal power over me or my marriage.
     
    #13 John of Japan, Sep 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2012
  14. Salty

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    Bottom line, NO, I would not them permit them to join our church - nor would I endorse their minsitry. Yes, it is based part on culture.

    Think about this - 5 years down the road -they decide to spilt - no need to divorce - legally - but if they link up with someone else - would it then be adultery? ....
     
  15. Aaron

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    When it comes to the education and rearing of one's children, and how divorce and other matters of probate are handled, the state says it is an equal party and has an equal say, and will use its overwhelming force to coerce the other parties.

    The issue of marriage licensing came to the surface in Baptist circles (as far as I can tell) back in the early 80's in the battle between Dr. Everett (Sileven) Ramsey and the state of Nebraska over whether or not the state could truly require Faith Baptist Church to use state-licensed teachers in their private school.

    When the state not only chained the church doors shut, but removed the children who attended the school from their families, their authority to do so was challenged, and the state appealed to its rights as an equal third party to the marriage contracts.
     
  16. Salty

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    What does that have to do with marriage
     
  17. saturneptune

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    This brings up two questions. Can one be married in the eyes of God but not legally, or, can one be married legally but not in the eyes of God?

    As Aaron said or affirmed, if one has taken vows before the Lord Jesus, then one is married in the eyes of God. If one gets married in a legal ceremony, then proceeds to live apart forever, and assuming there was no consummation before marriage, then maybe they are not married in the eyes of God.

    To me, they both sound technical and ridiculous. Why not do it as perscirbed by Scripture and the law? Does not Scripture tell us to obey the law of our land? Doesn't that make more sense, to do it the perscirbed way?
     
  18. Arbo

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    What's the difference between not being legally married, and 'shacking up'?
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    Nothing...............
     
  20. Aaron

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    Read the entire post. The state being a party to the marriage contract gave the state standing in the cases in which the children were removed from the homes. The state was in essence the third parent.
     
    #20 Aaron, Sep 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2012

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