Must Believe That He Is God!

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

    3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

    5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

    8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

    10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

    15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

    16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

    18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

    19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

    20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

    21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

    22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

    23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

    24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

    25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

    26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

    27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

    28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

    29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

    30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

    31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

    32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

    33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

    34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

    35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

    36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

    37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

    38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

    39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

    40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    I was perplexed about these scriptures for a while but then came to realize that if according to scripture that the faith spoken of in here is belief in God who is who he says he is. That is the only reason that any of these are spoken about. That faith was not a willed faith but a given faith by God according to his will and purpose. If others disagree please point out my error as I am here to learn. I believe that verse 6 is the crux of the chapter.

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    All these illustrations of old prove to me that the wonderous things that these children of God accomplished was only by their God given faith looking forward to the promise of the Savior to come... Brother Glen
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    .....the righteous by his stedfastness liveth. Hab 2:4 YLT

    who will render to every man according to his works: to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: Ro 2:6,7

    ....I by my works will show thee my faith. Ja 2:18

    You're right brother, this faith is not a choice or the will of the creature. It's a deep conviction that is the motivation for all true good works. That's what Heb 11 is all about, the saints through their patience in well-doing, their stedfastness, showing their faith.

    13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
    14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
    15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

    These all in Heb 11 had the law written upon their hearts. That's what the 'heart change' of regeneration does for us, it puts his law within our hearts.
     
    #2 kyredneck, Apr 21, 2015
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  3. steaver

    steaver
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    So when God said the day is coming when He will do a new thing, your reply is no God just the same old thing you have always been doing.
     
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Yes. God doesn't change. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and to-day, yea and for ever.
     
  5. steaver

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    So what was the "new thing" God said He was going to do?
     
  6. kyredneck

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    "The hour cometh and now is." The birth from above was 'new' only because it had never been revealed before.
     
  7. steaver

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    Surely you understand that phrase is speaking of the whole of Jesus' ministry on earth, when the new birth would be implemented. You really need to read Hebrews chapters 8 through 10 brother. It baffles my mind that Calvinist miss the whole point of the New Testament.
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    ...I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world. Mt 13:35

    ...It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3:7,8

    Was no new thing. It was a mystery from of old revealed.
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    Cant do that unless we are Born Again, Faith Pleases God Heb 11:6 and those in the Flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 !
     
  10. steaver

    steaver
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    Jer 31:31-34 - "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

    But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Hebrews explains this NEW COVENANT in great detail! And YOU say, NO LORD, nothing new about it..........

    The "mystery" of this "New Covenant" , being "born-again", was explained by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. It is called the "New Testament". Jesus called it "the new testament in my blood". (Matt 26:28, Mar 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1Co 11:25)
     
    #10 steaver, Apr 22, 2015
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  11. convicted1

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    steaver,


    It's a new covenant in that it now includes the gentiles....


    Salvation has always been by grace through faith....Christ came to destroy the 'works' of the Law, and not the Law itself...
     
  12. kyredneck

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    Kinda right. It IS a 'new thing' in that it was revealed that the two, Jew and Gentile, had always been included together in the eternal covenant.

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

    God had always had more people among the nations than in Israel during the Mosaic covenant.

    [add]

    Then the Mosaic covenant (which had been ADDED 430 years AFTER Abraham) was removed, abolished:

    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ.
    14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
    15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;
    16 and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    17 and he came and preached peace to you that were far off, and peace to them that were nigh:
    18 for through him we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father. Eph 2
     
    #12 kyredneck, Apr 22, 2015
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  13. kyredneck

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    Zactly.

    There's nothing 'new' about the 'new covenant' which IS the 'eternal covenant', and the way God has ALWAYS worked. The 'new' covenant is 'new' in the sense that the first was made old:

    In that he saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old..... Heb 8:13

    The mysteries of it simply had not been revealed before. The 'old' law covenant had been ADDED, thereby casting a shadow of the eternal covenant that lay behind it, and then it was REMOVED while the 'eternal (now new)' covenant REMAINED:

    19 What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made; and it was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator. Gal 3

    12 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. Heb 12
     
    #13 kyredneck, Apr 22, 2015
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  14. kyredneck

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    Kinda like coming into possession of a 1908 Model T Ford. It's old and been around for a long time, but it's new to you.
     
    #14 kyredneck, Apr 22, 2015
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  15. PreachTony

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    According to the scripture, we must believe in Him in order to be saved.
    Paul makes it clear that we have to call on God in order to be saved, but we have to believe in order to call upon Him. According to you, we have to be saved in order to call on Him, which is not in line with scripture.
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2170822#post2170822
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    pt

    Calling on the Lord calls for Faith Rom 10:13-14

    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    Believing is Faith, it pleases God Heb 11:6, but those in the flesh cannot please God so says Paul here Rom 8:8

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    So they cannot be the ones in Rom 10:13 calling upon the Lord !
     
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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  19. Iconoclast

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    Good to see you have taken an interest in the New Covenant Steaver:thumbs:

    Of course it also speaks about particular redemption for the elect of God who are called into membership by God's effectual call:thumbs:

    I am sure you are keen on that as well:laugh:
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    ...ah cain't help it, muh head is hard...
     

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