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Must Muslim Americans Submit to the Government?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), May 27, 2004.

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  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Just a different tack on an issue we have been discussing.

    If a Muslim finds that obedience to the US government violates the Quran, or any aspect of his religion, must he obey the law?
     
    #1 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 27, 2004
  2. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    That sounds like a simple question but then I thought about it.
    My personal answer would be that unless it affects more than the person (or persons) who holds the religious belief, exceptions should be made for that religion.
    I think about these kinds of things sometimes. For example, what if you are willingly a member of a religious group that believes if you commit such and such violation of that religions belief you should be put to death? If you willingly go to your death at the hands of the religious group, should they be charged with murder? I would say no, despite the fact that I'm appalled at such beliefs.
    Gina
     
    #2 Gina B, May 27, 2004
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Any American, be he Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, etc etc, has an obligation to follow all the laws. He must also support laws which are just, and work to change laws that are unjust.

    Note, however, that "moral" and "just" are not necessarily the same thing. I've used the analogy before that laws allowing forbidding a person to curse in the privacy of his own home are unjust, although the act itself is immoral (well, except while watching the Super Bowl, maybe).
     
    #3 Johnv, May 27, 2004
  4. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    I agree with the second paragraph.
    I disagree with the first, and so does the government. One group I can think of in particular is the Amish, who do not have a number of the same obligations as other citizens.

    Gina
     
    #4 Gina B, May 27, 2004
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    But most of the "Amish" exceptions, (the ones I can remember are running lights or reflective material on their horse drawn buggies and farm equipment, exemption from some of the mandatory school attendance laws, consciencous objector status for the draft, exemption from jury duty and certain other laws requiring the swearing of an oath) have been hashed out over the years in the political arena. Other than these and other exemptions, the Amish have been loyal, law abiding fellow citizens of our Republic.

    The Islamic community in America faces much the same problem the Roman Catholic community faced in the 19th century. Because the popes at the time exercised temporal power (anybody remember the Papal States), their loyalty to a Protestant/Secular United States was questioned in some quarters. In some parts of the Islamic world, one's loyalty to Isalm supercedes one's temporal loyalties even to the point of taking up arms against your homeland.
     
    #5 Squire Robertsson, May 27, 2004
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Not just that, Squire, but I see what's happenning in Islam today (outside the US) as somewhat similar to what happenned in Christian history during the crusade and inquisition period. Not exactly Christendom's most shining moment. Christianity ended up going through a series of reformations, evolutions, and enlightenings, of both small and large significance. Islam must, and likely will, go through the same. The question is whether they can survive themselves, or whether we non-muslims will allow them to go through that period (Our society wants instant results and instant gratification, ya know?). You pointed out the 19th century parallel. I agree with that definitely. Muslims here in the US are being torn in two, much like the Catholics of the 19th century.
     
    #6 Johnv, May 27, 2004
  7. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    "Muslims here in the US are being torn in two, much like the Catholics of the 19th century. "
    ''
    One Dutch RC priest had an interesting solution to this dilemma.
    Pastor Nolens headed the RKSP (Roman Catholic State Party), his peculiar choiche of motto was: Utrique Fidelis (=loyal to both), declaring his equall allegiance to the RCC and the Netherlands.

    (biography of Nolens, in Dutch ofcourse)
    http://www.inghist.nl/Onderzoek/Projecten/BWN/lemmata/bwn1/nolens
     
    #7 mioque, May 28, 2004
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