Mutual submission

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Helen, Nov 26, 2002.

  1. Helen

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    There seems to be reason to pull this into its own thread. I'll give my take on it and then let y'all run with it.

    When you love someone, you want to do what is best for him or her, over and above, perhaps, what you yourself would prefer doing in other circumstances.

    That's submission.

    When you love someone, you want to please them whenever possible, even if pleasing them causes you a bit of discomfort.

    That's submission.

    It is a gift a husband and wife give to each other. Because of love.

    I have learned to be extremely careful about voicing any "I would love...." to Barry, because he will move heaven and earth to fulfill it! And I will pay close attention to him to see what I can do to help him in any way I can, or cause a smile or a laugh or even a thank-you.

    What happens when we disagree about something? He has 51% voting stock in this company that is called 'us'.

    And that is also submission. It's a gift I don't mind giving at all, in part simply because I love him and in part because I know he loves God. So I know Who he checked in with first!
     
  2. Johnv

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    What happens when we disagree about something? He has 51% voting stock in this company that is called 'us'.
    A blessed man indeed to have a woman of virtue. But I'd have figured you'd each have 50% stock, with God as the tiebreaker [​IMG]
     
  3. Helen

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    LOL, then Barry would probably give in to me...sigh....

    I don't want that. I know his prayer life and I know he wants more than anything to go the way God wants us to go. One of the questions I had to ask myself before we were married was "Do I trust his relationship with God?" I wouldn't have married him if I could not have answered yes to that.

    And I know that God has directed the man to be the head of the family.

    Therefore.... [​IMG]
     
  4. donnA

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    That is very good Helen.
     
  5. AdoptedDaughter

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    How is it that a person could come to the conclusion that submission is obeying(bowing to)very command a man gives? I don't agree with it, but would like to know how anyone oculd think something like that.

    ~Teresa~
     
  6. Molly

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    Baptistfroever,we are to submit,unless he is asking us to sin....like asking us to not go to church,lie for him,watch things we shouldn't,etc.....If he is sinning,and he is a believer,we can biblically reprove him,in love....we are never to blindly submit,but if he is a godly man and desires for me to do a certain thing,even if it is not written in God's word,I should do it. I should respect and submit in EVERYTHING. Eph 5:25 says...."But as church is subject to Christ,so also the wives ought to be subject to their husbands in EVERYTHING." I read that as everything....

    There is no evidence for mutual submission in scripture.

    [ November 27, 2002, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Molly ]
     
  7. Molly

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    Submission is not an issue unless we disagree,then I am to submit(as long as it is not sinful,etc....)

    If we already agree on things,then great. But submission is a voluntary action to place oneself under another for protection,it is God's design,not mine. I want to be this kind of wife.
     
  8. donnA

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    There is also mutual submission. What if you are right in a decission and he is wrong? Several times I went along with what he said after we discussed it, and it turned out we should have done what I thought we should. I don't have a problem with submission, but it needs to be the right decission that the other person is submitting too. Just becasue he says it doesn't make it the right thing to do. For instance I take care f our money, he wouldn't know how to write a check, or know the PIN to our debit card(I just got him to be able to use it at the gas pumps), he doesn't want to know these kinds of things. Therefore I know how much money we have and what we can do with it. He thinks I should buy whatever I see I really want, but taking care of the money I know I can't. He'll be with me and I'll really loe something and he'll say then buy it, and I won't because I kow how $$ we have. He'll want something for the house or car and I sometimes have to tell him no. He knows I know what I am talking about, and he submitts to my finical decisions. I am qualified to make these decisions, he is not. He doesn't even know what our bills cost us in a month, or how much we have to spend on food. I'm a cheapo and he isn't, (we'd always be in debt if he made money decisions for us).
    My husband rarely ever tells me no I can't go somewhere or do something, but he does say I'd rather if you didn, but do what you want. I about 99% of the time don't, and that 1% wish I hadn't. And it works the other way around too, when I say I think it's a bad idea for him to do something, and he does, he'll saometimes come back and say wish I'd listened to you.
    So I think what I am saying is that sometimes one is more qualified to make a good (knowledgeable) decision, and thats where mutual submission comes in.
    Theres a fine line I've seen people cross over to where the husband is dictator, and the wife submitts out of fear. Being leader of a family is not dictatorship, and should never be treated as such.
     
  9. Molly

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    My question is this after reading your post: Is he the spirtual head of your home,or do you make most of the decisions?
     
  10. Helen

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    Abraham was told by God to submit to Sarah's desire to get Hagar out of the way...

    Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
    Eph. 5:21

    It's very mutual, although the husband is still the head of the family. If he does not know how to submit his own desires for the benefit of those he is in charge of, that family is in for a lot of trouble. The leader must be as Christ was during His incarnation: the servant of those he leads. That is exactly what the word 'minister' means, as well.

    So when you look at it from a biblical point of view, the wife is to support and help her husband in his ministry to the family.

    That's a wee bit different than bossing them around and expecting all to obey his orders!

    [ November 27, 2002, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Helen ]
     
  11. Daniel David

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    If the husband says the family needs to move from California to Kentucky, and the wife believes it is God's will to stay in California (I can't imagine anyone who would), does she insist on staying or does she go?
     
  12. Helen

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    They pray about it together. And keep praying until they are sure of God's will. Sometimes the Lord will put a disagreement in the wife's heart for a very good reason! If they are both Christians, He will change the heart of the one who needs changing (possibly both?) and lead them Himself.

    Actually, we have that exact problem right now, but we are not arguing about it, we are praying about it because we don't know what the Lord wants us to do. We know we will sell this house: six bedrooms on an acre of ground when all the kids are grown is quite too much. But where to go?

    1. Back to the coast, here in California
    2. A smaller home in this area
    3. Oregon, where it is greener and living is less expensive
    4. Australia, where so many wonderful friends are and our money is worth about twice as much as here.

    So we pray and wait for direction. What else is the sane thing for any Christian couple to do?
     
  13. Daniel David

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    Helen, that doesn't address the issue. Even after alot of prayer, the husband believes they need to move. The wife says they should stay. Do they go or stay?
     
  14. Helen

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    It does address the issue from my experience. When I have been wrong and we have both prayed, God has changed my heart. And that, really, was the most important thing, because then we didn't disagree any more and so it wasn't a matter of someone 'giving in'. It was a matter of both of us being in line with God's will.

    Barry just called at the end of that paragraph and I read the exchange to him. He said to say from him that he counts on the Lord to change his mind when he is wrong.

    The result is, Preach, that via prayer, we don't stay in disagreement. At least not about anything major! If he wants something for dinner and I had thought of something else, he gets his way, period, though.

    But our major decisions, such as getting married, or where to live, or what to do with money -- they are all given to the Lord and we find ourselves agreeing after prayer, every time.

    So I guess your question just doesn't apply to us? As for others, all I can do is say they need to pray more and make sure they are both utterly submitted to God's will in their lives and not just looking for Him to confirm their will!

    [ November 27, 2002, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]
     
  15. Daniel David

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    Helen, you still have not answered my question.

    To help out, let me put a time contraint on it. The husband says they have to move in a week. The wife says forget about it. We are stayin'. They pray as much as possible during the next couple of days.

    When crunch time has arrived and both parties still disagree, what do they do? Does the wife go believing it is wrong or does the husband stay believing it is wrong?
     
  16. Daniel David

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    Let me offer another possibility:

    The husband is lost and believes they need to move. The wife is saved and believes it is God's will to stay. Do they go or stay?
     
  17. Molly

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    And,Helen...if it is ordained protection(established by God for the authority to be the husband) and God's will for the wife to submit,why can't that be done,knowing it would be God's will to submit and therefore,do what your husband thinks. Do you feel God would lead you in a different way than your husband? How would you be certain of that and verify that *will*...as oppossed to just following God's word in the area of submision....? It is like you are saying that God could direct both of you in different directions? How could that be,when you are "one" and God has given authority to lead to the husband?
     
  18. Headcoveredlady

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    Dear Helen,
    I mean no offense when I ask this question. But, why have you posted this topic, "Mutual Submission," in the fundamental Baptist section? You are an intelligent woman and you probably know that most Fundamental Baptist Churches teach the Headship of man. Just a little bit confused.
    I am not telling you where and how to post, but I am just curious as to why you would put it here.

    HCL
     
  19. Daniel David

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    HCL, in the thread on pants, Johnv mentioned it. I suggested that someone start a thread on Mutual Submission so that the original thread would not get too far off course.
     
  20. Headcoveredlady

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    Oops, sorry, I missed that. Nevermind, Helen.
     

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