MV description -- Let's make it clear.......

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Mar 25, 2004.

  1. Phillip

    Phillip
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    As a person often called an "MVer" or "MV lover" or whatever by the KJVO group. Let me clear up a few misconceptions that have been spread about our beliefs. If you use an MV and you agree, please say so, and if I make a point you disagree with, feel free to straighten me out.

    As a person called an MV person:

    1. I do NOT hate the KJV. Far from it. I think it is a great translation and was even greater when it was printed because the language has changed over the years. Words are different, many aren't even used today and it is a difficult translation to read.

    2. I love the beautiful language of the King James, especially in the poetic and prophecy chapters.

    3. I read the King James and compare other Bibles to it (though not using it as the standard -- as I would compare any other translation with another)

    4. I am NOT a "Word of God" hater. I simply believe the Word of God is not JUST found in a translation that has had many revisions since 1611.

    5. I do NOT think that EVERY translation is accurate. There have been bad translations and there WILL be bad translations.

    6. I do believe; however, that the mainstream translations of today, specifically the NASB, NIV, ESV, Holman, NKJV contain the Word of God and to be clear, so does the King James version (all revisions). I like them in varying degrees. My likes are based on "why I am reading the Bible at a particular time". If I am reading the KJV in Psalms or Genesis to enjoy the language I grew up with in church, that is one thing. If I am reading an entire book and do not have a lot of time to spend on each chapter, then I will usually use my ESV or Holman. I sometimes read the NIV for easier understanding.

    7. I also believe that by reading and comparing translations, it is possible that the Holy Spirit can utilize this to provide you with insight not seen by a single translation. The Holy Spirit can also do this with one translation, but often I have been reading my parallel Bible and read four versions and the concept the writer was trying to get across suddenly became clearer.

    8. I also believe that it is defaming the Word of God to call a translation "evil, or demonic" or other names simply because if it tells the story of the Jesus in a way a person can become saved, you just may be treading on very thin ice.

    9. But, I do not have a problem with being critical (as in textual criticism) of particular passages of any translation for the purpose of comparing to the originals.

    10. Finally, I do NOT believe that there is enough doctrinal difference between the manuscripts that the KJV was derived from and the "so called" Alexandrian (even though they make up only a portion), to have an effect.

    Summary: Be careful as you read to pray and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. I do not believe that I can say that I use the Holy Spirit as a guidance to sit down and rewrite the KJV in new english or make my own translation that will be inspired---I am human and what I think may be Holy Spirit guidance may be faulty. Otherwise, I could write the "Phillip 2004 version" and it would become the new standard.

    There is no Biblical evidence whatsoever, that the KJV is a perfectly inspired book, nor is there any evidence it is of higher level than most modern translations. But, this is not to say that it is a bad translation. Far from it. It IS the Word of God, but so is my ESV.

    Now, KJVO's that is my stance on the Bible, so if you accuse me of saying something or believing something I did not say, I will point to this post. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. TC

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    I pretty much agree. I don't get into any textual criticism because I don't know Greek that much - although, I have bought some resources that should help me learn more. So, I'll continue to read a variety of English translations to get the sense of the scriptures.
     
  3. Pastor KevinR

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    Pretty fair assessment to me. [​IMG]
     
  4. Phillip

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    TC, I am the same way. Although I have studied both (some) they are very difficult languages and in fact Greek has ways of expressing things that seem almost impossible in English. It is way over my head to translate an old manuscript accurately without guidance.

    THAT is the reason I like to compare translations. My only point here was that I do not think it is wrong for scholars or anybody who can to look at individual verses in all translations and make comments on their accuracy.

    The bottom line is We Still Have the Same Doctrine. Regardless of what the KJVO's say. I just wanted to straighten out a few of the innuendos made in some of the threads. Such as "we are Bible Haters","we do not believe in the Word of God" or the big one "We hate the KJV". These are not true. [​IMG]
     
  5. Phillip

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    That means a LOT coming from a pastor. Thank you, Brother! [​IMG]
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Amen to all. I grew up with the KJV1769 oxford revision for pulpit and ASV1901 for in-depth study.

    I regret the divisive parochial spirit of the KJVonly and feel that this same feeling of dismay toward the "onlies" is widespread.

    I am Greek/Hebrew first, from which I translate into 2004 GET Version (Griffin Expanded Translation), then a plethora of good English translations, including the AV1611 and KJV1769, NASB, et al.

    Does that make me a MV'er?

    If so, proudly.
     
  7. tinytim

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    I also will stand by your definitions.
    I am just now learning about textual criticism, and it is fasinating to me.

    I'll proudly be called a MVer. The KJV translators were MVers in 1611!
    Paul was. Peter was. So was Jesus.
    If I'm persecuted because of my stand, at least I'll be in good company.
     
  8. Phillip

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    Dr. Griffin,

    Maybe you have something there. I would buy a 2004 GET. I would feel a lot more comfortable with it than another "new, but unknown" translation.

    I only wish that I had enough knowledge to read the Greek/Hebrew by sight. I think that would be as close to "being there" as you could get.

    What little I have studied--I have studied Greek more than Hebrew, but it is such a complex language that I often feel that it is nearly impossible to convey certain "impressions" the writer wishes to portray. At least this is the feeling I get after studying all of the different possible combinations. Being very knowledgeable at Greek, would you say that is might a true statement? :confused:
     
  9. Phillip

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    Sure, we all know Paul and Peter read from the King James Old Testament! [​IMG]
     
  10. tinytim

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    Hey I just thought of something. If I translated a Bible I could call it the "tiny Bible"
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. Phillip

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    Hmmmm! I can see it on the shelf. The Tiny Bible in Extra Large Print. I like it.

    You could even have sales slogans like "The Tiny Bible with a Big Story."

    Oh my, its getting late, my brain shut down hours ago. I'm outta here. You folks have fun. [​IMG]
     
  12. robycop3

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    I don't care about labels whatsoever-I'll continue to use what God has provided for us to use, and I'll continue to put down false doctrines such as KJVO at every opportunity.
     
  13. Tangent

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    I also still use the KJV along with various MVs (mostly ESV, NIV, NASB). I certainly don't "hate" the KJV; I respect and admire it. On a related note, I suspect that the word "hate" (like several other common terms) no longer has the meaning it once had. Almost any negative opinion, no matter how mild, can be described as "hate" these days. It might be beneficial if we all used our words more carefully and accurately.
     
  14. RaptureReady

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    Funny, my eight year old can read it fine except for maybe some words that she has not been schooled upon yet. But, if she has a problem, she gets a dictionary and a concordance, not another Bible.
    Obviously not enough to believe it.
    Really, what then is your standard?
    Not revisions, just editions.
    Really, what part is not accurate and how do you know?
    So basically, you read God's word when you feel like it.
    If your relying on the Holy Spirit to help you understand, why use other translations to compare? You think the Holy Spirit needs help? [​IMG]
    What I believe is that the modern translations are misleading translations from the spirit of the anti-Christ. Yes, they have enough of the Gospel to save a person but since the dawn of the modern versions, the church is becoming more like the world.
     
  15. Loren B

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    Though the Bible says nothing about one particular book, it does imply that God will preserve his word and what God does is perfect,************ therefore I believe by faith that the King James Bible is that perfect book.

    Do you understand the leap of logic between what you said before the ****** and after the *******?
    Faith is based on fact not on wishes.
     
  16. RaptureReady

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    Hebrews 11:1
    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    NUFF SAID!
     
  17. skanwmatos

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    So, if I said:
    You would have no problem with that statement?
     
  18. Orvie

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    Funny, my eight year old can read it fine except for maybe some words that she has not been schooled upon yet. But, if she has a problem, she gets a dictionary and a concordance, not another Bible.
    Obviously not enough to believe it.
    Really, what then is your standard?
    Not revisions, just editions.
    Really, what part is not accurate and how do you know?
    So basically, you read God's word when you feel like it.
    If your relying on the Holy Spirit to help you understand, why use other translations to compare? You think the Holy Spirit needs help? [​IMG]
    What I believe is that the modern translations are misleading translations from the spirit of the anti-Christ. Yes, they have enough of the Gospel to save a person but since the dawn of the modern versions, the church is becoming more like the world.
     
  19. RaptureReady

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    You would probably be the only NIVer here, but at least you stand for something. I not seen a modern version (which ever) only yet.
     
  20. Orvie

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    You would probably be the only NIVer here, but at least you stand for something. I not seen a modern version (which ever) only yet. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sure Skan will respond, but he is not a "NIVer", he's KJVp, and just b/c he's not KJVO, doesn't mean he doesn't "stand for something"--Golly gee, even the Pentecostals "stand for something" :rolleyes:
     

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