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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Johnv, Jun 7, 2003.
Now let's see if the MV's are under attack
Sorry John, I can't really answer your poll. Do I hate the New World Translation? Well, I don't hate the bits that speak the truth; just the bits that don't. So do I hate the NIV? Well, same point. If there was a box that said, "I oppose the NIV's errors and wish all NIVs would disapear and be replaced by AVs" then I would certainly tick it! If it said, "I wish the NIV had nver been translated" I'd have ticked that, too. But if it said "I wish everyone who has only an NIV had it taken away and nothing given in its place", I'd say "no!" An NIV is better than nothing; but I think an AV is better than both!
Interesting results so far. Now maybe the KJVO crowd will check their own arguments and start considering who is really doing the 'attacking.'
By the way, Johnv, you left out one of my favorites, the English Standard Version (ESV)!
Another one of those idiotic polls that proves nothing. I attack modern versions because of 2 things: #1 - They have as their foundation polluted and corrupt texts and #2 - They teach bad/false doctrine. At least I am willing to admit that I "hate" all modern versions. I have a hatred for them because they have attempted to replace the true word of God with a counterfeit.
Pioneer: "I attack modern versions because of 2 things: ...
and #2 - They teach bad/false doctrine."
Actually, if one took a poll of bad/false
doctrine, over half of it is taught straight
out of the three major King James Versions.
Mormonism - KJV
Adventism - KJV
Unitariasm - KJV to 1880
OnlyOneName-ism - KJV
Universialism - KJV
Mysticism - KJV
Liberalism - KJV to 1880
KJBonly-ism - KJV
Infant Baptism - KJV
etc, etc, etc
Interesting Edifier,you were praising the AV earlier today,and now you are associating the AV with all sorts of "isms"(Proverbs 11:1),which by the way has nothing to do with the AV's text one iota! Just because many choose not to follow by 2Tim 2:15 and have itching ears too,does not make the KJB corrupt.
JYD: //Interesting Edifier,you were praising the AV earlier
today,and now you are associating the AV with
all sorts of "isms"(Proverbs 11:1),which by
the way has nothing to do with the AV's text
Prouerbes XI:1 (KJV1611):
+False ballance is abomination
to the LORD: but +a just weight
is his delight.
+ Heb. ballances of deceit.
+ Heb. a perfect stone.
Recall an honest weight does NOT
mean someone won't cheat you on the price.
An inerrant/perfect Bible does not guarentee that
someone won't distort it's meaning.
JYD: "Just because many choose not to follow by 2Tim 2:15
and have itching ears too,does not make the KJB corrupt."
Amen, Brother JYD -- Preach it!
An inerrant/perfect Bible does not guarentee that
someone won't distort it's meaning.
There are more bad doctrines taught from
the KJV than from all the MVs put together.
Another irrational note of conjecture.
Have you stepped back to realize your post is an attack on KJVO's ?
If your drinking from a cup of water, and notice a hair floating in it, do you pick out the hair and continue drinking the contents, or pour it out ,wash the cup, and fill it with clean water?
It is too bad that your reasons for hating God's word are not true reasons. They are based on false teaching which has been exposed time and time again.
Since the rational thought process has its beneficial properties, one could very easily conclude the KJB as the True Word of God by the limiltless efforts by satan to dilude its interpetation by the counterfeit "religions" birthed by erroneous applications of said Scripture, by taking it out of context.
The MV's don't seem to "bother" satan very much.
That is interesting. I was just wondering what Satan is bothered by. I can scratch MVs off the list.
That is interesting. I was just wondering what Satan is bothered by. I can scratch MVs off the list. </font>[/QUOTE]Since it was what the LORD had told Adam about the tree in the midst of the Garden the serpent approached Eve with his beguilement, I would have to say the false teachings about Scripture are birthed due to that very cause, thus the "reason" for "correcting" the KJB/ The Word of God.
Isn't that exactly what the serpent did? "Correct" the Word?
Isn't that the premise behind the MV's? To "correct" the KJB?
I mean, that's what the entire basis of the MV's agenda, to "correct" the KJB and translate it by "corrupt" manuscripts. I can only imagine the serpent had his (corrupt) "scroll" as he so often approached the "woman", the "man" knew better, so did satan!
Istherenotacause: // Isn't that the premise behind
the MV's? To "correct" the KJB? //
I allow that it is.
Therefore the KJV1769 and KJV1873 are
MVs = modern versions.
In both cases the premise was
to correct the inerrant, pure, true, perfect
written word of God.
In another venue i asked:
Which KJV to you use?
Here are the percentages with 28 respondants
(total does not add to 100% due to rounding):
1873 - 14%
1769 - 32%
1611 - 14%
Say what? - 39%
This is one of the least thought through arguments used by the KJVO side today. It is apparent that they have not read very closely and have not listened to their preachers and teachers with discernment.
When you read the text of Genesis 3, you find some very interesting things.
1) If Eve had done what she said, there would have been no problem.
2) Satan did not change the word of God. He made no assertion. He asked a question to which Eve gave an appropriate response. (see #1 above). Then, He flat out denied the truth of God's statement. His response was "You shall not surely die." The problem with this situation was not the change in God's word but rather the flat out denial of it.
This is not something to laugh about. It is sad when you try to mislead others, to cause them to doubt the word of God. That is what Satan did -- he got Eve to doubt the truth of God's word. When you attack modern translations of God's word, you are scarcely better off. You are causing people to stumble by causing them to wonder if they really have the word of God. You are causing doubt and confusion. You are dividing the body of Christ. And all this because you refuse to learn the biblical doctrine of inspiration and how it applies to our world today. It is sad when so much teaching is available but is ignored by those who are wise in their own eyes.
Why is it an 'attack?' Pioneer just admitted that he attacks MVs. And what is irrational, please. I must be slow in your eyes, so you really need to break it down and make it as clear as possible to me. Please, be a little long-suffering.
If you don't mind, show how the KJV = God's only Word. This is what you are assuming. I would just like to know the basis for your assumption.
[ June 07, 2003, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
Let's look at a few things that 'Pioneer' has stated that he hates and are "counterfeits."....
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household" (Acts 16:31, NASB).
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9, NIV).
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (I John 1:9 ASV).
Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit (I corinthians 12:3, ESV).
Consider each of these examples and think about anyone who says they are "counterfeits" and that he hates them.
People here on the BB speak in a belittling fashion of “correcting” the Word of God.
“Correcting” the Word of God is forbidden by the Word of God itself.
However, correcting a translation of the Word of God when it, or parts of it, (while perhaps not in error) are outmoded in a dynamic living language is not improper (imo).
KJV 2 Corinthians 6
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
NIV 2 Corinthians 6
12 We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us.
13 As a fair exchange-- I speak as to my children-- open wide your hearts also.
Does our heavenly Father have a message?
Yes, and He blessed the KJV to carry the message for several centuries.
But it is no dishonor to God or the KJV to modernize His Word to extend through out time His original intent in giving it. Just as the KJV was brought forth out of many translations preceding it, one MV will appear to virtually displace all others (again, imo).
It was His original intent to spread His Word in the common (koine) language of the common man.
Originally posted by JYD:
>>Interesting Edifier,you were praising the AV
>>earlier today,and now you are associating the
>>AV with all sorts of "isms"(Proverbs
>>11:1),which by the way has nothing to do with
>>the AV's text one iota!
Wow, how did you completely miss his point? He was responding to Pioneer's claim that the MV's teach "bad/false doctrine" Edifier's point is not only accurate, but relevant to the issue initiated by Pioneer.
>>Just because many choose not to follow by 2Tim
>>2:15 and have itching ears too,does not make
>>the KJB corrupt.
"Corrupt" is your word, not his. As a matter of fact, I never saw Edifier even imply this thought.
Actually, I am curious: you use the term "AV" in your reply. Are you using the AV (as I do) or are you using a revision? What does the AV say in Ecclesiasticus 8:5?
If someone were to ask you, "Is the Bible the word of God?" you would probably answer, "Yes it is." The person asking the question more than likely will be referring to the Bible that he is holding in his hands. If you really believed your statement then you (more than likey) would be referring to something else other than his Bible.
If a translation of the word of God cannot be considered the word of God then we are of all men most miserable. Your statement is most illogical.