My questions as I study Reformed Theology

So again, Jesus needs you Calvinists to explain what he is saying? Jesus doesn't know how to express himself properly? Jesus really meant to say understanding and not ear? Good thing you Calvinists came along to explain the scriptures for us.

No, the chosen are those whom believe. Go back and read the parable of the wedding feast in Matthew 22. Jesus said the kingdom of God is like a king who invited men to his son's wedding. He called and bid them to come but they refused. Because they refused he destroyed them.

Then he called other men who came, but one did not have the proper wedding garment. The garment represents the righteousness that is imputed only to those who believe on Jesus. This man was cast out. Then Jesus said;

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Were all that were called chosen? No. The first group was not chosen because they did not obey and come when they were called. One man who did come was cast out because he did not have on the proper garment. Only those who came and had the proper garment (showing they had believed and were imputed to be righteous) were chosen.

They did run at first. After all, what did God tell them was going to happen if they ate of this fruit? He said they would die in that day. I can't be dogmatic on this, but they might have ran away because they thought God was going to kill them. Nevertheless, as God continued to call they came to him, how do you think they carried out the recorded conversation? They also believed God's promise to send a Saviour as shown by Eve's statement in Gen 4:1.

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Eve was mistaken here I believe, she did not realize that Cain came from Adam, she believed it was the promised Saviour God had promised in Gen 3:15. Because they believed God's promise, God killed an innocent animal representing Christ and clothed them with it's skin, representing the righteousness imputed to believers.

If election might stand, not of works, then how must it stand? Faith of course. Faith is always contrasted to works. This shows God elects those whom he knows by foreknowledge will believe.

Give me a break, some of you post photos of famous Calvinists in your avatars. On another thread Luke is almost being accused of Calvin worship. Who is the photo in your avatar?

 

You are being completely dishonest here. Several times now I have explained that grace must come first, we could not believe on Jesus if we had never heard of him. God giving us the truth in the scriptures is his grace.

What I have said and I will repeat is that you cannot receive this grace until you believe. That is very different.

I gave the analogy of the airplane. It can be shown to you, but that is not the same as getting on the plane.

And that is what the scriptures say, the grace that bringeth salvation has APPEARED to all men.

Titus 2:1 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

God has revealed and shown Jesus Christ to the world. His grace has appeared to all men. That doesn't mean every man receives grace, for then all would be saved.

No, only those who believe receive this grace. Just seeing the airplane will not get you to your destination, you need a ticket to get on the plane. And it is the same with grace, God shows it to everyone, but only those who believe on Jesus have access into this grace.

And I have shown you scripture that says this exact thing. What scripture have you provided to support your view? Nothing.

I have to go soon and I will be travelling tomorrow, but I'll get back to you.

 

I gave you ample Scriptures to show how grace was bestowed prior to salvation.

You refuse to look at it.

You did in fact say faith saves you and comes first, then we get His grace. You believe faith earns Grace. Grace is freely given, not earned.



Then you changed your mind. Then you tried to say I said it.

Go read the Scriptures I gave you as proof God bestows grace prior to salvation instead of going on and on and on and on and on pretending you don't see the Scriptures relating to Abram, and Saul.

On top of that, you say I used a verse out of Corinthians, to prove something, which I never mentioned. Your facts and memory are off.

Go look at the evidence in Scripture I gave you. I gave you evidence. Now go look up Gen 12-15...Acts 9.


In addition to your error in interpreting Rev. 3:20-22, go take a look at some great expositors online who clearly show He was talking to His church about fellowship, not a gospel invitation, it is not an invitation to be saved, and they allude to the plain fact He is speaking to the church upon whose door He is knocking, as the Spirit clearly states it. Matthew Henry and Barnes clearly lacked understanding of the book of Revelation. It is an easy assumption to think this is a Gospel invitation. An honest look at the context proves this is not the case. Again it is "unto the churches" this message is given, not to the lost, as the text plainly attests.

What is the Gospel, Winman?

:thumbs:

here are references showing this invitation was to the church:

http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/Book_of_Revelation/commentary/htm/030320.htm#Revelation 3:20

http://bible.org/seriespage/message-laodicea-rev-314-22

http://www.albatrus.org/english/universalistic/universalistic_passages/revelation_3.20.htm

http://www.echozoe.com/archives/2228

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/pdf/revelation-3-20-reclaimed.pdf

There are plenty more. You are applying this verse. You need to learn to interpret.

 

You don't believe what the Scriptures say, Winman. You believe what you prefer to think and then go looking for proof texts to support what you prefer to think.

You do not believe the Word of God when it says, "God worketh ALL THINGs after the counsel of his own will."

You do not believe the Scriptures when they say, "For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things."

 

No. Just reading the full book helps.

No. In fact the Bible tells us that when Jesus told the gospel to others, many did not understand. Nick believed Jesus was talking about being born from his mother again.

Look, ...don't take my word for it. Read it your self.

In John 8 Jesus says...

Now it is clear he is not talking about them having ears on the side of the head. They had been exchanging words back and forth. What he means is that they don't understand. right?

Isa 43..
10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and my servant whom I have chosen, >>>>>>>>>so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.

Here is another reason to study theology. Never set doctrine based on a parable. Only use the point of the parable. What is the point? Verse 14 tells us...

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

So your saying God chooses/elects those that choose him 1st? What is the point of the election, when they have already made that choice?

This is not what we see in te Bible.

Moses did come to God and say...I got a good idea...choose me and make a great nation.

God chose him.

Noah didn't say... God I have a idea...lets build a boat.

God elected Noah to build.

Paul didn't come to God and say...you save me and I'll stop killing believers.

God came to Paul and changed him.

Peter, and his brother Andrew, James son of Zebedee, and his brother John was picked /elected not by them going to Jesus and asking to be saved.

Jesus came to them

Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus; .......... and Judas Iscariot. All of them was picked by Jesus.

Judas was picked so that a OT passage would be true. Judas Iscariot had no choice but to follow what Christ knew would happen when he picked him.

I mean...I thnk I'll stick with the Bible on this one.


and besides...it is clear you have never traced your views to their logical ends. What I mean...when you say..God elects based on foreknowledge ........this changes nothing.

I would be glad to go over this with you...if you can't see why.

 

Your post points out the issues with our vantage point very well -- is it from a human perspective or God's perspective?


I do think that you have a problem with this statement, however:

Even Arminians must invoke "prevenient grace" in order to explain how one dead in their sin and trespasses can come to have the faith to approach God.


Below is article IV of the Remonstrance -- the 5 articles of Arminian theology.

 

Church

This is the message of Jesus about and from Him for the church to go out with.

Revelation 3:

20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

The message is to the angel(messenger) of the church.

Merry Christmas,

May our Lord and His word go with you.