My rant on singles groups

And why should that bother you? </font>[/QUOTE]It bothers me because it shows your egocentrism. We are to be humble because if we are not God wil humble us and we probably won't like that.

 

Honestly, yes. A healthy marriage can take place without a sexual relationship. It makes it much more difficult, but it can survive.

But is this the best way? Just because it is the most common does not make it the best way.

Most Christians that I have known who proceed through the dating relationship are looking for someone that they can spend the rest of their life with. Sex is an added benefit, but that's not why they go around searching for a mate.

But what if you are missing the woman of your dreams because your focus is initially finding someone who can satisfy you sexually? Do you not know that there is so much more to marriage? Research has shown that sexual satisfaction comes not from two partners finding each other visually stimulating or physically attractive. It comes most of all in the level of communication present in the couple - in other words, the deeper their relationship, the better the sex. It's there in black and white, and people from both secular and religious institutions have attested to that. That's where you are missing out.

I haven't had sex in 25 years, and I'm pretty okay with things. I haven't lost my sanity, and have a pretty good job. God has sustained me, so I haven't needed to turn to anything else to satisfy a sexual need. I understand that that comes with marriage, and I'm excited about that, but to say that a person is going to go crazy without sex is on the opposite scale of the puritanical point of view that sex actually makes a person crazy.

Have these studies shown causation or merely correlation?

Paramount importance? Nah. It is important, but not of the utmost. Intimacy - now that's important. Communication - absolutely. Being partners on the spiritual journey - yes! Combine those three aspects, and the sexual relationship will fall into place.

Of course the intimacy isn't there? You're looking for love by moving to the lust category first. It would seem that you are hoping that the initial feelings of physical attraction will morph into some kind of love. That's just opening the door for disaster. I've seen it time and time again.

Then why not try to make no division. Don't lead anyone on. Come to church looking for worship, edification, and opportunities for ministry and missions. Then you don't have to worry about any kind of division. Why wouldn't this be best? Why do you insinuate that you HAVE to lead people on?

It's not about you loving and leaving, it's about what she will do when you leave. You're still stuck in this egocentric paradigm, where you don't seem to even consider what she would go through. This paragraph makes that blatantly clear.

Perhaps this is because of the way you initially perceive women in the first place?

There we go again, lust leads to love. That's not found in the Scriptures at all.

Most doesn't mean best.

That's very sad that you would categorize all of the women as such.

BTW, for the record, I do have a masters in marriage and family counseling, have done and still do pre-marital, marriage, and family counseling, and left my doctoral program in Marriage and Family Counseling with a few semesters remaining to go in the ministry. Just so you know that I have experience in the matter, especially where research is concerned.

 

Do most survive? Christian couples, yes. If everything else is where it needs to be, and for whatever reason, sex is not a recurring part of marriage, the relationship can still be stable. Again, it's not ideal, but it's survivable.

And I would say that that perspective is incredibly worldly and not Christian at all. Read the Word for God's design for marriage. It's found all over the place. You won't find sex or even having children as a reason for marriage (except in I Corinthians 7, when Paul says that it is better to marry than to burn.) In fact, there are many, many things in a marriage that you cannot get anywhere else. To believe that sex is the only thing is silly. Plenty of people are having sex outside of marriage, and they still long to BE married.

So it's still lust which is transforming into love.

You really don't believe this, do you? Testosterone in women is made in small quantities in the ovaries, cortices of the adrenal glands, and the placenta. Estrogen is produced in men by the liver and the adrenal glands. Some estrogen is actually converted from testosterone by the male body. Please, please do some looking-in to this area, because hormones are NOT transferred by fluids.

Pheromones aren't that strong, man. They really aren't. I would talk to a trusted male friend and ask him why things were happening the way they were. Because, sad to say, it's not the pheromones. In fact 95% of what people read about pheromones attracting the opposite sex are completely bogus.

I think that you've been given some bad information. I would encourage you to research these things that you say, "Studies show..." because unless you've read the actual study, people can say many different things about it.

From my opinion, it still looks like you are approaching relationships from a "lust to love" perspective, which, from what I read in Scripture, is out of line with the Word. And isn't that what should govern ALL of our lives?

 

I've just finished reading this whole thread at one sitting. I've been married for 20 yrs. with 3 beautiful children(14,17,19). I can't relate to someone who is single because I've been married almost all my adult life. One observation I can give is that my relationship with my wife has grown steadily stronger and closer as the years have gone by. "Sex" is not the most important thing in my marriage and never has been. My marriage has not, and never has been perfect. As my wife and I have grown older (41 & 42) we have grown closer. I have more respect for my wife now than ever. She is more attractive now than when we first met! I believe that today's culture pushes single people (men and women) towards the sexual aspect of relationships, instead of the intimacy of friendship and partnership of marriage that I believe God intended. Every thing we see and hear focuses on sexual attraction. That's one thing I've tried to teach my kids...garbage in, garbage out. I believe God will take complete control over our lives if we'll let him have it. He knows what is best for us personally and for the other person involved now or in the future. We, as humans not completely in tune with God's will, are too impatient. This is another problem with today's society, we want what we want RIGHT NOW.
Someone said earlier in this thread to wait on the Lord. I believe that is an often overlooked command. God has a plan for each of us. We may not like the looks of it at first, but if we allow him to work his will in us, we will be much happier in life now, and be able to serve Him to a greater degree with His match for us.

 

Good call, Shane. Very good call.

 

It is obvious you are not married.

If you are governed by your biology then you are no different than a bull. People have a spirit. That’s what makes them different.

If communication is in place everything else follows easily. When the communication is great so is everything else. Life is not without struggles. I want an ambitious wife who will help me through those times. I want a Proverbs 31 wife who works hard. See anything about biology in Proverbs 31? I rejoice that my wife works hard and is intelligent. She takes care of the home very well. I enjoy having people to our home. When I invite them I am assured they will enjoy themselves because she can cook well and makes people very welcome. She plans for us.

My wife graduated with honors form college and was nearly a straight “A” student in high school. I enjoy talking with her because she is intelligent and has something to talk about. My daughter is the same way. My daughter reads at least one hundred books each year. She is in the eighth grade. She has gotten straight “A’s” in every grade. She ran track, plays the piano, and took second place in the county writing test.

The fact is that most men are intimidated by intelligent secure women.

It's not so much looking for the right person as it is being the right person.

 

Very true, GB. That's the crux of the matter.

 

Not me! My lady love's Masters degree hooding ceremony is next weekend. She's Magna Cum Laude. (I, otoh, graduated oh-thank-you-Laude).

Amen, preach it!!!!!

 

Not me! My lady love's Masters degree hooding ceremony is next weekend. She's Magna Cum Laude. (I, otoh, graduated oh-thank-you-Laude).

Amen, preach it!!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]That’s great! What is she getting her master’s in?

 

"If people are unhappy being single, then that needs to be dealt with. Marriage will not take the unhappiness away. A person who is not satisfied being single will not be satisfied being married. Marriage is not better or worse; it is different."

Brother Larry: I think I shall get the above paragraph printed on a poster and hang it in my living room--where I can never forget it.

The original poster brings up some familiar points that I can relate to. I have never been married but was in a very long "committed" relationship for a number of years. Although we never lived together, I felt a bit like a divorcee when I made the final split with him. Even now, I know it was for the best to end things.

I attended and was a member of the Evangelical Free Church for about 17 years when I finally decided that I was a stagnate Christian and was getting very little out of church. I left the E-Free church for a variety of reasons; partly because I had some life-changing circumstances in my own life (father terminally ill), had broken off the long-time relationship, and was dealing with another possible but "never happening" relationship scenario. The singles crowd consisted of mostly women (one of whom is still a close friend). The rest either had the bitter or emotional issues as the poster mentioned or were just plain "weird" by my opinion. I remember never wanting to be lumped in with some of the divorced or never married single women of the church. In fact, I had many more friends at church who were married and had kids. However, I too felt like (at times) that there was little ministry there for the singles of the church. For a while, there was a singles get together once a month. I think it was mostly women with maybe one or two guys. And yes, I'd say most all the women wanted the one guy (except myself). It eventually sort of faded out of the list of activities on the weekly bulletins. I felt strange attending these anyway since I seemed to have little in common with any of the people except the fact that I was single.

I also had another issue at the E-Free Church and maybe this is why I have such strong sympathies for the guy who posted about dating the Catholic girl. It is not anyone's place (in a church or elsewhere) to berate someone for dating a person "not" in the church. Chances are good that whoever I'd be dating would NOT be an ax murderer or drug user. However, I always felt like whoever I dated would be scrutinized at some point. I swore I'd never get involved with another church that did that, even in a subtle way.

I know the heartache all too well about trying to find someone you're compatible with. I personally would never join a singles web site, but I've known some who have. When you get to be in your 30's and 40's, it becomes much harder to find anyone suitable whom you have anything in common with. In all the church-visiting I've done in recent years, I'd have to say that there are VERY few single guys in church - any church. I've even shared this heartache with a few sisters at the Primitive Baptist Church. They sympathize but have little understanding of how I feel.

Many singles oftentimes feel like the "black sheep" in the flock. I felt that way many times at the E-Free Church. I don't know what the answer is, but perhaps treating the singles the same as their married counterparts would be the start. Segregating the singles usually doesn't work as the poster indicated. And many ministers (with exception of a few) don't know the pain that a lot of singles deal with. Either they married young or have simply forgotten what it was like. Quoting a lot of scriptures doesn't do it either. Trust me on that. Sure, God can use you as a single person--no argument there, BUT the recording that runs through many womens' minds is "What is wrong with me"? "Why do I see others finding people and here I sit once again?" At the moment, I'm doing pretty well as a single, but I know the hurt and disappointment the poster is talking about. (didn't mean to write a book here)

 

Absolutely, Mitsy. Thanks for sharing that. Too many people think that there is something wrong with them if they are single. Many go into a depression as they over analyze everything about themselves, instead of relying upon the passage in Scripture about being made in the image of God. I believe that church should never have a "black sheep." And ministers and members should both do everything they can to have their arms open wide to people who enter the halls, whether they are single, married, divorced, widowed, or even, *gasp* in a homosexual relationship. How can anyone find healing and/or be brought to repentance unless they have directly experienced the love of Christ through the Church?

 

A marriage will accentuate your differences. They will be more noticeable. If you can’t stand the person now surely don’t marry them.

As people get older the number of men becomes less and less. That is not just for single men. It’s a fact that most often men die first. When people get to be 75+ the number of men is about ten percent of the women.

You stated, “ It is not anyone's place (in a church or elsewhere) to berate someone for dating a person "not" in the church. Chances are good that whoever I'd be dating would NOT be an ax murderer or drug user.” If someone is not going to church they are not living according to Hebrews 3:13 and 10:24,25. The bible says to not be unequally yoked. ever seen two animals unequally yoked. One does all the work and pulls the other along. If they don’t work together they do not get very far and just tire.

Keep living for Jesus. That is single most attractive thing in anyone. A godly man and woman are attractive to each other. A godly man will not be attracted to an ungodly lady.

I would not be so quick to discount websites. A lady in the Bible study I lead who is 70 will marry a man in July this year. She met him through eharmony.com. He is a great godly man. Before she ever met him she told me that she knew more about him than she probably ever knew about her husband. They have quite an extensive questionnaire.

 

Christian Education. Her Bachelor's was in Christian Ministry. Her first stole was red, and her second is blue. I suggested she get her doctorate of humane letters (white stole) so she could be patriotic.

 

"The only downside to this I see is the animosity that some of the single/30's - 40's males have toward me due to my success in this area. They would really like to be me, and the 30's - 40's females hate me because I'm not even remotely interested (intimately) in them and quite honestly neither are a lot of the males my age because as I've said previously - they're not what they used to be if they ever were to begin with."

After reading more of your posts, I have less sympathy for you and more distain for your overall attitude (or self-worship) about dating. Since you obviously realize that you don't have any problem getting dates, then what is your beef? That the 20-somethings don't make good potential "wife material"? I'm 43 but do not look it. I've always been interested in guys either around my own age (not much older) or even a few years younger, but I don't write someone off totally on the age factor either. If you don't want to "lead anyone on" then do not flirt or give the wrong message to anyone you're not interested in. I've seen this game played WAY too many times. The guy acts interested, but once you show any interest BACK, they are no longer interested. They want only the chase. That is so unfair to women, but I see it happen all the time. It's happened to me more than once. Men seem to get their jollies out of this game playing mentality, and it stinks BIG time.

 

Interestingly, I'm a 30's - 40's male (I'm 38), and my girlfriend is 27. I've found that there's a fair amount jealousy among other singles of my age. I dunno why. She just happens to be the person God put before me. I've dated a lot of immature women my own age.

 

If one reads Porverbs they will realize that success comes and goes.

James says that life is but a vapor.

It's not about us being successful but about giving God all the glory for everything we have or don't have. It's not about success. It's about who is my God. Success will never measure up to what will last for eternity.

Take a look at what John wrote in 3 Jn 4: "I have no greater joy than this, to hear of my children walking in the truth."

Making disciples is the greatest joy a person can possibly have. It does not compare to any success anywhere else.

 

I still think you have a lot of issues that make you sound shallow (and that looks are the MOST important trait in a relationship). I will agree that it is not fair to you or someone else to go out with someone who is TOTALLY not attractive to you, but I think you are looking mainly at the Brittni's of the world while ignoring say...the Debra Baron's (from Everyone Loves Raymond) or some of the lesser known celebrity-looking people. There ARE attractive people in between the Brittni's and the Dr. Ruth lookalikes in the world. There are sooooo many people in between, but you will probably overlook someone who is in between because they don't turn you on (physically). The Brittni's are young enough that they will be looking for someone else (maybe their own age) later. And I was nearly 40 years old before I figured out that part of the attraction (at least for me) is having a guy I can really talk to. That makes him more attractive to me, physically and otherwise. I had a guy who was pretty good looking, but he was selfish, immature and could talk ONLY about the things he was interested in. The world revolved around HIM. After it was over, I could see men in a totally new light. If there is no substance there, if they are so self-absorbed and ego-centered, then no decent woman is going to want them (long-term anyway). Guess what? My ex has dated no one since our breakup 4 years ago. Smart women don't waste their time on guys who have those traits. I'm sorry it took me so many years to figure that out.

In the meantime, I've quit trying to have a mental picture of what type is attractive to me or not. You really don't know until you get to know someone. I've met many attractive people (both male and female) who weren't quite so good looking after I got to know them. Same can be said for the average-looking (at first glance) people; many times they are more attractive after you get to know them. Sometimes we limit God when we want ONLY the Brittni's or the JFK, Jr. lookalikes. (This goes along with friendships as well as dating relationships.) There are many people worth getting to know in between.