My still unanswered question about music.....

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Molly, Apr 25, 2002.

  1. Molly

    Molly
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    I've read all the posts on the neutrality of music,I've looked openly at both sides...but my question remains to be answered from a biblical point of view....the question being: Why does a church *change* a style in the first place? What are the reason and benefits from it? Is it simply a reflection from our culture? Or does it go deeper? The reason I am concerned with this is because,I disagree with the philosophy that puts style ahead of bible teaching to *win* souls,I disagree with the thinking that the church has to look more like the world to attract the unchurched. I also disagree with the idea that other(mainly speaking,traditional hymns) worship styles mean a church is dead from true worship. I soley believe the church is to be like heaven on Earth(this is from one of John MAC's sermons). It should be foreign to an unbeliever,not something they could jive with or something that sounds like what they listen to on the radio. A worship service should be reverent and the music should prepare the hearts for the Word of God(the climax for worship). I believe the music should show the World the holiness of God in a way that they do not understand. When the church changes to grow a crowd,the downgrade has begun. But,probably in those churches,it had begun a long time ago. So,my concern is not with the music beat,etc....it is with the style changing and why it is happening? The underlying motive concerns me. Explain anyone? ;) :D
     
  2. Sularis

    Sularis
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    The styles are changing because; people believe that one style of music is more effective then another in the purpose of evangelism and worship.

    Certain people have interpreted that a certain style is more effective then the other; as you have as well Molly.

    Its not the music or anything that makes the service

    Pardon my poor quoting - Not by might nor by power but by My Spirit

    Although I do not encourage leaving a church over worship style - if you are truly truly uncomfortable and you cant see their viewpoint. Leave unless of course yer like me and you like a good fight ;)
     
  3. A.J.Armitage

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    It sounds almost like you confuse traditional hymns with Bible teaching. The style of music is one thing, the teaching is another. And remember, the traditional hymn style was new once.
     
  4. tyndale1946

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    First of all doctrine and hymns have to reflect the same. If I can not preach it I will not sing it. Can you sing your doctrine and preach your songs? What of the Psalm of David? Did Jesus really pay it all? Can you sing it that way or do you have to throw in something of yourself to make it so?... Brother Glen :eek:
     
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    How amazing is Amazing Grace? Can you preach this song? This is a tried and true hymn of Baptist believers down through the centuries... Can you preach this song?

    Amazing Grace!

    (1) Amazing grace! How sweet the sound-

    That saved a wretch like me!

    I once was lost but now am found,

    Was blind but now I see.

    (2) 'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,

    And grace my fears relieved:

    How precious did that grace appear

    The hour I first believed!

    (3) The Lord has promised good to me,

    His word my hope secures;

    He will my shield and portion be

    As long as life endures.

    (4) Through many dangers, toils, and snares,

    I have already come;

    'Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,

    And grace will lead me home.

    (4) When we've been there ten thousand years,

    Bright shining as the sun,

    We've no less days to sing God’s praise

    Than when we'd first begun... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  6. Aaron

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  7. connieman

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    Molly....First, the music of the church should glorify God, not man; in particular, unregenerate men.

    Someone said, "There is no accounting for(explaining) taste." But, there is a marked difference between what pleases the natural man, and those who are born of God.

    Church music has changed also because most churches have changed their view of God, and His Gospel, over the past couple of hundred years. The music people like is a reflection of their beliefs about God. Still, people will like what they like, as with tastes in food and clothing.

    Finally, only God can change a person's tastes. "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nor can he recognize and appreciate God-exalting music.

    "For our God dwelleth in the heavens; He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased." "Salvation is of the LORD." "Good Music" proclaims these, and other, truths of Scripture.

    Regards, connieman
     
  8. Aaron

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    Excellent post, connieman.
     
  9. Molly

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    Connieman,

    Ooooo....good thinking! I appreciate your words!

    Aaron,thanks,also. [​IMG]
     
  10. redwhitenblue

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    Connieman, ugh..nice adding to scripture there. Where is scripture does it say that that if you are not born again you can't appreciate God-honoring music? This is actually a very false statement for I personally know older folks who never once accepted Christ and yet they enjoy gospel music, kind of shoots that theory down eh?

    Also, please enlighten us all as to what is "God-honoring" music? No one else has been able to pin point this but perhaps you can.

    Karen
     
  11. Mike McK

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    I agree, Karen.

    Two of my favorite Gospel albums are "The Troublemaker" by Willie Nelson and "Angel Band", by EmmyLou Harris, neither one of whom are Christians.

    Mike
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    The style changes because man, even those who profess Christ, still ask the serpent's question:
    That's the bottom line.

    They point to the Old Testament and say that David wrote this and said that. Well, let's all dance in our ephods as well, right ? [​IMG]

    David is not the founder of the New Testament church. Jesus is. And not once in the New Testament do we read He sang with His disciples using instruments of any sort.

    Churches say they follow their order of worship and other, as you say, styles, to the New Testament church, yet nowhere in Paul's, or John's, or James', or Peter's, letters is there mention of musical instruments as part of worship.

    Here's another link that might help :
    Why do Primitive Baptists Not Use Musical Instruments ?

    God bless.
     
  13. Sularis

    Sularis
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    Kumusta Ka or maybe Nee How Ma

    making the guess you pinoybaptist are Filipino or Taiwanese (pinoy) referring to a method of understanding Chinese with Romanic characters (I think)

    Too many Asian countries making the claim that
    they are the "only"

    Too many people deny the OT saying its already happened its history, its not important

    Christ died - its history - ITS IMPORTANT

    The spread of the gospel unto the Gentiles - its history - ITS IMPORTANT

    The whole Bible was written in the past - its HISTORY - ITS VERY IMPORTANT!

    Why do people select the "history" they think is important, and then forget the rest.

    "Revisionism"? Work of the Devil?

    Here are the two criteria you need Molly

    1. That it glorify God
    2. That it cause no one to fall and sin

    We are under grace, not laws

    Primitive Baptists/Church of Christ/etc...

    Your doctrines concerning music/baptism/election ... are ... far too Pharisaical in nature, not understanding the law of grace, and the nature and Unity of God.

    [ May 02, 2002, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  14. Aaron

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    Martin Luther
     
  15. connieman

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    redwhiteblue, answers to your questions...which, of course, you will not understand, if you have not been born again of the Spirit.

    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know (understand) them, for they are spiritually discerned." I Cor 2:14 Therefore, those not born of the Spirit cannot appreciate or discern God-honouring, spiritual music.

    Those who are not of God may enjoy greatly the tunes, the beat, and the emotional thrills of "gospel music", and music of all kinds, but they cannot understand and believe the true Gospel, which is of the Spirit. So they remain under the wrath of God, still destined for damnation. Of course, much depends upon your definition of "gospel." There are many false gospels in the world and, therefore, much perverted church, or "gospel", music.

    Oh yes, God-honouring music is music which proclaims the truth of God, according to the scriptures, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, praises the attributes and works of God, and recognizes His mighty, absolute authority over all the heavens and the earth, and everything therein. "Our God dwelleth in the heavens, and He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased."

    Another definition of God-exalting music might be music which proclaims a Jesus Who Has Saved His People From Their Sins, rather than a Jesus who merely tries to save, or hopes to save, or will save if only men will let Him.

    I could go on, but it is enough for now.

    Regards, in the Name of Him Whom we who have believed love because He first loved us,

    connieman

    [ May 03, 2002, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: connieman ]
     
  16. redwhitenblue

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    ok, so is your point that non christians can't tell that it's a christian song if it's not "God honoring" music...or they are not effected by what you think is "God honoring" music? See non christians have to be drawn in some way or another and it must be the tug of the holy spirit otherwise no one would ever get saved by even preaching the gospel...in fact doesn't the word of God say it will not return void? If the the truth of the scriptures are planted into a song no matter what the music is like...God's word promises us it will not return void, not because of the music but because of the message.

    Karen
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    Mr. Sularis:

    Pilipino po ako, ginoo.(I'm Filipino, sir).
    The Philippines is the only country making that preposterous claim thinking Catholicism and Christianity are one and the same.
    Singapore does not make that claim. Neither does Japan, or Taiwan, or Indonesia, or India, or Malaysia, or Vietnam, or Borneo, or Hongkong.
    I don't deny the Old Testament, neither does the church I belong to. All we're saying is that we have a New Testament which is the substance of the Old.
    And if we are to point to the ways of worship in the OT, then we might as well allow dancing in our underwear like David did, or offer animal sacrifices like the Hebrews did.
    We cannot mix old and new, remember the parable of the wine in old skin and new ?
    The Bible twice said in the New Testament - "speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs." - once in Ephesians, again in Colossians.
    Now, Strong's defines both as religious odes.
    What qualifies this verse is the word "spiritual" which comes from pneumatikos referring to being non-carnal (fleshly) as opposed to gross or demoniacal. That is the word the Holy Spirit chose to use.
    There certainly is nothing spiritual in Christian Rock or Christian rap, or even what is termed the alternative Christian music.
    My youngest brother in the Philippines thought Rock and Rap was a "cool" way of bringing youth to Christ.
    They, and some of the bands I know, have yet to point to me somebody they brought in thru their open door evangelism "concerts" who stayed in church.
    And when they do their concerts, I sometimes fear they will end up smashing their instruments into pieces in "praise" of the Lord, like rock bands do.
    At best. Christian Rock music and Christian Rap
    are expressions of rebellion against what the youth feel to be "old fashioned" traditional gospel and spiritual songs.
    At worst, they are another ploy of Satan.
    Besides, no matter what type of music one plays in his/her church, the unelect will not be drawn, because the drawing of the Holy Spirit is only for those whom the Father has given to Christ.
    Funny you should judge us Primitive Baptists, I looked at your profile and you're not even a member of any church.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    Mr. Sularis:

    I'll take back what I said about your not being a member of any church. I had somebody else in mind. My apologies.
     
  19. Molly

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    About the dancing issue with David...I studied that word and found it to mena a leap,like aleap for joy,not dancing like we know it today,def not suggestive hip swaying dancing that goes with the beats of today's secular music...so I see that as a leap anyway,no dancing,please.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Sularis

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    Ephod is underwear?

    I point you to our ancestors Adam and Eve - who when not under sin - were naked.

    Oh I wont disagree with you that Christian rap is bad, I personally dislike all rap. But I have to admit thay at least focus on lyrics which hopefully are God-honouring

    And some Christian rock is not fit to honour God, in that they violate the "rules" for glorifying God via instruments.

    Those rules are as follows
    1. Lyrics must be God honouring
    2. All music must have lyrics; it can be played without singing but only if the song has lyrics to begin with
    3. The lyrics must be at all times "over" the music, and clearly distinguishable to old folk - since their hering tends to be worse.
    4. The music must fit with the sermon or theme of service. ie Hellfire and Brimstone service dont play happy wappy stuff. Music is designed to supplement a purpose. If the lyrics are not pointing to the sermon. The music will then supplement division in the service.

    Curious what part of the Phillipines? I spent 3 months there on a missions trip that absolutely everyone pulled out of. I went alone.

    I wandered around Cortabato(sp), Davao, Manila, and one other island I currently forget since I only spent 2 days there.

    My Cebauno is so so rusty
     

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