My thoughts on Calvinism.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by pLug, Oct 29, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. pLug

    pLug
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I think of God in the beginning, I think of a being who is totally and completely unfettered by any limitations and whose will is total and absolute. So what did this being choose to do with the unlimited possibilities of an all-powerful creator?
    He created us.
    This speaks to me of an unfathomable generosity and graciousness. And to top it all of, the creator gave us a choice to have communion with him or reject him. This gift of choice is the most incineratingly beautiful concept I have ever come in to contact with. I think the theology of Calvinism belittles this gift.
     
  2. dispen4ever

    dispen4ever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    0
    Me, too. I've gone back over the last year or so, and Calvinism has been discussed to death on these boards. But that's my .02 cents.
     
  3. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    One thing good about the C/A debates. They sure will make you dig deep into the Scriptures. They have been tough at times but to be honest, I am glad I have been involved in them because I think I can defend the position you just stated much better now than when I first came on BB. You have to give them credit for knowing Scripture, I just think they have it wrong.
     
  4. pLug

    pLug
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0


    The funny thing is, scripture provides a total paradox on this issue.
     
  5. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    You know, I doubt if there is a paradox there at all it is just all of our lack of understanding of the scriptures, which is nothing to be ashamed of for we only see through a glass darkly and God gives us what understanding He wants us to have.
     
  6. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    How so? Calvinism, at least in its Reformed understanding, has nothing to do with a lack of choice, and everything to do with the sovereignty of God.
     
  7. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,056
    Likes Received:
    36
    Well said.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Calvinism has everything to do with slavery to sin - and a total lack of choice.

    In Calvinism you are either enslaved to sin - choosing sin like a slave but then having that slavery called "free will" - OR your brain is being "zapped" so that the lost person wakes up one morning and while eating their cheerios they suddenly "discover" that they are "already saved" -- "already born again" -- "already in harmony with God" and seeing that this already happened to them - they simply "choose" to continue being saved - because they can not choose anything else (and surely if they COULD choose something else they WOULD not - since no SAVED person would choose to be lost).

    Calvinism is totally rebuffed by the text of Rev 3 "Behold I stand at the door and knock" because this places God on the OUTSIDE knocking and man ALONE on the INSIDE expected to hear AND TO OPEN the door.

    There is no "Behold I bust down the door and come in" nor even a "behold I let myself in and helped myself to your home"

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. El_Guero

    El_Guero
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great tho'ts!
     
  10. av1611jim

    av1611jim
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    I suppose Calvinism's understanding of free will falls completely apart in Genesis.
    Genesis is the place of beginnings.
    All the great doctrines of the faith have their beginnings in Genesis.
    One of which is man's responsibility to his Creator.
    God gave Adam a choice. Every tree in the garden, including the Tree of Life, or the Tree of the knowledgeof good and evil. Adam CHOSE sin.

    Ta da! Adam had no depraved nature which forced him to choose sin.
    therefore, Calvinism's assertions are wrong.

    God says, choose you this day who you will serve.
    There is no trick to it. Man is fully capable to choose life or death. A depraved nature has nothing to do with it.
     
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought you hated the C/A debates?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is an interesting interpretation. Astonishingly incorrect, but interesting.

    Behold Who stands at the door? Who knocks?


    Who is taking primary action, reaching out, seeking, calling?

    Answer that, and you have defined Calvinism. No one "discovers" they are saved. Rather, we acknowledge that the work neccessary for our salvation and reconciliation to God has already been accomplished in Jesus Christ. We must do -- we CAN do -- nothing to complete it.

    When any man opens the door, that is a response to actions taken BY GOD for reconciliation.

    That is Calvinism.
     
  13. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ta da! You completely misunderstand the Calvinist doctrine of Total Depravity.
    Therefore, your assertions are wrong.
     
  14. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calvinism does not deny men's choice or his responsibility. That is a strawman. Was Adam and Eve's choice free in the libertarian sense? No Why? Because Jesus is the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. That being.... Adam and Eve could not have chosen any different than they did.
     
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calvinism say you have a choice but you can't use it! ;)
     
  16. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calvinism says nothing of the sort.
     
  17. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some people appear to know what John Calvin wrote better than John Calvin did himself. Amazing!

    What is that old saying, "Don't quote scripture to me, I already know what I want to believe."?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  18. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another dishonest misrepresentation. Typical of you. You have been told this too many times to not know it. Does this mean you are just dishonest?
     
  19. Eric B

    Eric B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Messages:
    4,806
    Likes Received:
    2
    Well, if Limited Atonement is true, and the work necessary for salvation was only, specifically for them, from the beginning of the world, and everyone whom this work was accomplished for WILL become saved, then that is for all purposes the same as "discovering they are saved". The only difference is the insertion of the legal transaction of them "responding", and then God declaring at that point they are saved.
     
  20. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see.

    So you're saying Calvinism is wrong, because God can be explained. God works thus-and-such way, and really there's no reason for arguing, just agree. Right?

    Atonement is effective for all of humankind, and applicable to those who respond to the call of God. We -- meaning Calvinists -- do not know why some do not respond; rejecting the idea of "double predestination" (which Reformed theology does), we have to admit that we, at least, understand very little about God. Calvinism is an attempt to quantify that which we do know.

    We do most decidedly not know that "everyone whom this work was accomplished for WILL become saved." That isn't any of our concern, you see. It is up to God.

    Further, it is unScriptural to think that a person can just "discover" they are saved. The Word must be proclaimed for a person to hear and respond.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...