My thoughts on Calvinism

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TisMe, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. TisMe

    TisMe
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    People accuse Calvinism as being wrong because they say it denies free-will. That is not what Calvinists believe. They deem the choices made in the Bible free-will. There is so much sinning bearing false witness in the flesh of men. Ask any Calvinist, and they will tell you they believe man has a free-will, so what are they really saying then?

    What Calvinists are wrong about is they believe they are premade for salvation like robots, which puffs up. They don't think they were premade for hell, but for heaven, because God saved them so they could believe. Their spirit can not sense it is wrong for God to premake people for just hell or heaven. They kill the image of God, because they say in order to come out of total depravity (a false teaching), they can't come to the cross from the image of God in which they are made (this first grace), but that God had to have unconditionally premade them irresistibly and limited, like the Arian nation or natural selection. They truly despise Gen. 1.26,27, the garden choice an Abel's right offering. God foreknew the choice that Abel would make. He chose Abel because He foreknew his choice.

    They really do despise that God can predestine by foreknowing our choice. They have no faith to believe God is all-knowing to have this ability. So instead the Calvinist believes the person needs to be pre-programmed long before to be saved - this is what they mean by "chosen," which is not in the same sense as "chosen" by God predestining by foreknowledge (Rom. 8.29) of our choice.

    "Chosen by premaking" does not glorify God. God does not want to walk with robots, but man made in His image who receives the cross. Obviously Calvinism is a Pharisaical heresy, because though we are still fallen, we are still made in God's image, so yes, we can come to the cross, not by the will of the flesh but by that part of the will made in God's image which God allows us to receive the redemptive design. The image of God can not be destroyed by the mind of a Calvinist. Never, and I repeat, never say that God saves you first then you can believe. This is a zombism.

    If a cult doesn't teach non-OSAS to (control you and passify you), they seem to want to teach Calvinism (pride you up and passify you). In either case, (RCC or Reformers, e.g. puritans, Presbyterians, Lutherans) want to passify you to control you into their system. It is not so pure or presbyter is it? Luther was notoriously confused, for he couldn't let go of the false teaching of total depravity while contradictorily still believing in resistible grace. Those who know anything about Lutheranism know this matter always gets shoved under the rug. You can't have it both ways. Either we can resist God's grace because we are not totally deprave (though fallen), or we can't because we are zombies. Be "not double tongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

    I've debated this topic on a forum before but it did not go very far. Thoughts?

    ~Alen, TisMe
     
  2. 12strings

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    I won't try to defend calvinism here, that's been done elsewhere...But I do want to address a few inaccuracies for any who find this post confusing.

     
  3. preacher4truth

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    So you've come up with your beliefs on Calvinism arbitrarily.
     
  4. TisMe

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    Yes, I have a ways to go. I am not saying I am right but I base my opinion on what I have learned thus far. I understand I may be wrong in some places ( maybe a lot :tongue3: ) but I will continue to read and learn. Feel free to tell me what you disagree with and what I should pay more attention to. I don't claim to know it all. :)
     
  5. preacher4truth

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    What have you read?

    Thus far all of your beliefs on Calvinism are purely subjective.

    Do you conclude most or all of your beliefs on your own subjectivity? If not, why have you done so on this issue?
     
  6. TisMe

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    Subjectivity is Subjective in it's self. What it is truth? Any belief, idea, or claim anyone has on any matter is Subjective and can be open for debate.

    I do agree with you, my tone and way I wrote this could have been done less arrogantly and professional. My apologies
     
  7. preacher4truth

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    I didn't see you as being arrogant and never made such a claim.

    But I ask again, what have you read? Answer this please with evidence.

    Do you conclude most of your beliefs on your own subjectivity? If not, why have you done so on this issue?

    You've made conclusions based upon you thus far. Other sources or are you shooting from the hip?
     
  8. quantumfaith

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  9. quantumfaith

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    Tisme,

    Whatever you do, maintain this spirit and attitude. You will over time come to more certain conclusions on SOME things, others will always offer you a tension, a tension to wrestle with and perhaps never resolve. Blessings to you.

    BTW, I am not a calvinist, but I do think you have a bit more to learn about them and many various and nuanced positions that they hold. Read and learn from a variety of sources, all the while being validated by your own personal reading of the scriptures.
     
  10. TisMe

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    I don't understand how I can produce evidence I have or have not read something?

    These thought's are based of old thoughts, I posted on another forums, and wanted to revise them and posted it so that I can gain more knowledge through others reply's.

    None of your questions are dealing with the OP, If there is a particular point I wrote or something I said, feel free to address it.

    If you have personal question's about me and what books I've read, ect, feel free to use the private message function.
     
  11. TisMe

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    Tyvm, Quantumfaith

    I've had a tough life and been through a lot and was turning into a grumpy old man like my Father and one day it dawned on me and I've chosen to try my best to treat everyone with love and respect, regardless, and be humble.
     
  12. preacher4truth

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    You don't understand how you can provide evidence for something you've read that caused you to arrive at your conclusions? The remainder of your questions is quite odd.

    This is what I am getting at. All you have offered is your thoughts thus your entire argument is arbitrary.

    I'm simply asking what books you've used to come to the conclusions in your OP. My posts are not contrary to the OP but are asking for validation and are in fact dealing with it.

    You can answer what books you've read here in this thread that have caused you to arrive at your conclusions. That is what I am asking. To reiterate, all you've offered so far in your argument and OP is totally subjective.
     
  13. preacher4truth

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    BTW, I appreciate your spirit in all this as well. I'm just searching a little deeper than emotion.
     
  14. TisMe

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    To best honest, I have a hard time (sometimes) understanding people's desired question, for lack of better wording, what there getting at, because of my upbringing, English was not my first language so bare with me.

    I will list the books and other resources that have directed me to these subjective idea's.
     
  15. TisMe

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    The bible, Calvin, Various forums ( I know, I know, ), Logical Arguments to Disprove the Doctrines of Grace, The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, and Documented, Lectures on Calvinism, The Stone Lectures of 1898, Spurgeon Vs Hyper Calvinism (Paperback),The Battle For Gospel Preaching, Institutes of the Christian Religion (2 Volume Set), Chosen by God by R. C. Sproul, The Five Dilemmas of Calvinism,

    These are just a few on the shelf next to me in my study room.

    If there is a certain book I should read or outlook I should take, I would be happy to take advise.
     
    #15 TisMe, Jun 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  16. preacher4truth

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    OK. You've looked up some titles. Now tell us what exactly from these resources brought you to your conclusions.

    To be honest, nothing in your OP reflected a learning from other sources but mirrored total subjectivity.

    I will excuse your English in your explanations -- that is not a problem. I haven't up to this point noted a problem with your English and hope this is not a 'sympathy card' being played on your account.
     
  17. TisMe

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    The bible, Calvin, Various forums ( I know, I know, ), Logical Arguments to Disprove the Doctrines of Grace, The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, and Documented, Lectures on Calvinism, The Stone Lectures of 1898, Spurgeon Vs Hyper Calvinism (Paperback),The Battle For Gospel Preaching, Institutes of the Christian Religion (2 Volume Set), Chosen by God by R. C. Sproul, The Five Dilemmas of Calvinism





    Then why ask for a list of sources and books, if you already made your mind up that I used none?

    Good, I am glad because it has been a problem for many for a long time. Let me know what part of the OP, you disagree with or have questions about.
     
    #17 TisMe, Jun 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  18. TisMe

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    I am finding out quickly in my short time @ the BB, what landmines not to step on. :thumbs:
     
  19. quantumfaith

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  20. quantumfaith

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    Just be yourself, learn and you will learn the voices that are worth listening to, there are good and solid voices....on both sides of the aisle. There are also some who are just noise.
     

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