My thoughts on immigration

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Psalm 100, May 16, 2006.

  1. Psalm 100

    Psalm 100
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    I just want to start this post by saying I heartily agree that immigrants who apply and come to this country legally should be able to, and those that come across illegally are breaking the nation's laws and should be deported.

    That being said, I am fearful for my children. They are both adopted from Guatemala. They don't look like me. They look like the "invaders" that everyone decries.

    They are legal US citizens, entitled to every right afforded by law. But because they are hispanic, I worry that when they are grown, they will still have to "prove" that they are legal. I worry that they will still be looked down on as "invaders", even though they had no decision in they're coming here.

    Why can't we discuss the immigration problem without resorting flaming people's fears about "invaders" and overblowing the fringe Aztlan movement (and yes, this is a fringe movement, kinda like the Aryan Brotherhood)? Is it because we're not scared of the English speaking white Europeans to our north, who have very open borders, and where the US has actually caught a few terrorists coming in?

    I like reading posts here, and fellowshiping when I can, but the rhetoric has reached new highs. Or lows. I just ask that you realize that your words and actions have an impact reaching beyond the immigration debate.
     
  2. Mexdeaf

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    As a missionary to Mexico, I agree with most of what you say. There is more heat than light in this debate. But I am ashamed that the illegal immigrants that are in the USA would think that as invaders- for if they have come in illegally that is what they are- they have any right to demand that we give them immunity and citizenship that they are not willing to seek legally.
     
  3. ktn4eg

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    If a person enters the United States illegally, then he/she has broken our laws and ought to be punished accordingly.

    I'm sure that if I entered some other country illegally, that country's government wouldn't be wringing its hands over what ought to happen to me, now would they?

    I have very little sympathy for those who knowingly enter the US illegally and then have the nerve to expect to be treated as though they were not criminals.

    If they don't like being branded for what they really are here in the US, then they can go back to where they came from--and the sooner they do, the better.

    My $0.02 worth (before taxes, that is)!
     
  4. Linda64

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    Here is an email I received today about the Immigration debate:

     
  5. Scott J

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    If your family was dirt poor, without medicine, and barely living from day to day and you were willing to do virtually any job to provide for them... would you stop at a border or take care of your family?

    You can disagree with illegal entry and be reasonable about ways to get out of this mess while still having Christian sympathy for these people.

    Remember that if we do somehow succeed in getting rid of those 11 million cheap workers and the price of everything goes up accordingly.

    I say we take as many as will agree not to draw federal welfare benefits at any time during their stay.

    As for Linda's article, California has made its own bed by being ridiculously liberal with its social programs. The problem lies first with the politicians who "entitled" those hoods to gov't goodies. So long as they keep electing left-wingers... I have no sympathy for them. ;) [​IMG]
     
  6. Scott J

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    I would almost wager that with the exception of California the hardest workers and ones least likely to attempt to draw gov't welfare goodies are the illegals. They have the most to lose by showing up at a gov't office.
     
  7. Mexdeaf

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    I would almost wager that with the exception of California the hardest workers and ones least likely to attempt to draw gov't welfare goodies are the illegals. They have the most to lose by showing up at a gov't office. </font>[/QUOTE]You would probably lose. I know some illegals personally and they are on WIC and other programs. Our government actually encourages it!
     
  8. Scott J

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    If that is true... wouldn't the first sensible thing be to make it illegal to give government benefits to an illegal alien?

    Have you reported those illegals?

    Not an accusation but an honest question: Do you think we as Christians have a moral obligation to report those we see breaking the law?
     
  9. bubba jimmy

    bubba jimmy
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    Shouldn't we be equally upset over employers who knowingly break our laws by hiring people they know are here illegally? In fact, is it not the promise of a paying job that lures the illegal immigrant to the U.S. in the first place? Where is the effort to focus on big business who profits from cheap labor? I know they are large contributors to both major political parties, so it is not likely that the government will go after them. But why is the criticism almost always directed at the poor guy struggling to feed a wife and three kids back in Mexico? If I had three hungry kids and a wife to feed, I'd likely be lured across the border illegally by a (relatively) good paying job myself. Who here would let their children go in want under such circumstances?
     
  10. Mexdeaf

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    To answer you, in order you asked-

    Yes. But it will never happen. If they did that the folks in the welfare office would be out of work.

    No. I have encouraged them to return if possible. I never encourage immigration legally or illegally. Most of the ones I know of entered on visas but have overstayed. Now they have children born in the USA. If I reported them now it would likely destroy a family.

    Yes. But until our government puts some teeth in the laws and strengthens the border it is a waste of time.

    You may freely criticise me but if you were in my shoes you would probably do the same.
     
  11. Scott J

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    Maybe not the same but probably not greatly different.

    I have worked with Mexican laborers and learned to like and respect them. My personal opinion is that many of them have an illegal status as much because our laws are stupid, impractical, and ineffective rather than their being of a criminal mindset.
     
  12. Scott J

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    Shouldn't we be equally upset over employers who knowingly break our laws by hiring people they know are here illegally? In fact, is it not the promise of a paying job that lures the illegal immigrant to the U.S. in the first place? Where is the effort to focus on big business who profits from cheap labor? I know they are large contributors to both major political parties, so it is not likely that the government will go after them. But why is the criticism almost always directed at the poor guy struggling to feed a wife and three kids back in Mexico? If I had three hungry kids and a wife to feed, I'd likely be lured across the border illegally by a (relatively) good paying job myself. Who here would let their children go in want under such circumstances? </font>[/QUOTE]Amen on all accounts Bubba.

    The best place to start if they are really serious is with the employers. Businesses will respond if there is a price to be paid and a reasonable threat. For many, the cost of non-compliance must exceed the cost of compliance before they'll change. That's why environmental fines often appear to be harsh.

    OTOH, we should have better means for immigrants from Mexico to be sponsored by Americans.
     
  13. donnA

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    Illegal is illegal, and should be treated as such. Break a law here what do we do? Let people off, give them a chance to make the original crime right? Usually we put people in jail for breaking the law. You can't steal and offer to give it all back if they'll let you go. Why do we have laws if we do nothing about them. Yet we allow people to break the law by entering our country illegally, already setting step in this country as a criminal and then offer to let it all go away.
     
  14. Scott J

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    Statutes should be reasonable, practical, and just. If they are not, we should change them before attempting to enforce them.
     
  15. Psalm 100

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    In the OP, I wasn't especially speaking to the issue of the wrongness of illegal aliens. I believe they are breaking the law and should be deported.

    My issue is will the growing rhetoric surrounding this taint even those who are here legally or second or third generation. Will my children have to "prove" forever that they are citizens simply because they don't look like the majority?
     
  16. Scott J

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    With some people undoubtedly it will reflect on Americans of hispanic descent.

    I have known hispanics from Texas that bristle at being called Mexicans. Their families have been Americans since Texas joined the Union.
     
  17. Psalm 100

    Psalm 100
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    I grew up in El Paso, and I knew families that traced their roots back to when Mexico was a Spanish colony. They didn't like being labeled Mexican, either.
     
  18. saturneptune

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    Scott,
    Please read the subject of the op before posting.
     
  19. bapmom

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    I would almost wager that with the exception of California the hardest workers and ones least likely to attempt to draw gov't welfare goodies are the illegals. They have the most to lose by showing up at a gov't office. </font>[/QUOTE]I think you would lose your bet, my friend. [​IMG] The abuse of welfare benefits by illegals is prevalent everywhere, even way up here in WI. Gov't offices are notorious for not checking with other offices within their same branch, much less actually communicating with a gov't office of another function. Yes, I speak from experience. Hardworking people of any race I have no problem with. I do have a problem with the notion that they ought to be able to just come in here any old way and be afforded RIGHTS which are by definition reserved for citizens. Much of my frustration is really with the gov't officials and the bureaucracy that allows this to happen so easily.
     

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