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My Way or the Highway

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Aaron, Feb 6, 2009.

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  1. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Nope - but I don't "clobber" my kids.

    From the American Heritage Dictionary - clobber: To strike violently and repeatedly; batter or maul.
     
    #41 annsni, Feb 7, 2009
  2. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I think the example and lifestyle of the parents and their relationship and communication with the children is the most important thing.

    I do not think physical punishment is good for every child. In some children, especially if the parent is not a good role model, it only breeds resentment and sometimes hatred.
     
    #42 Marcia, Feb 7, 2009
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    When I was young, I put up hay for an old farmer. He had five brothers, each with their own farms. One of the brothers had a son who was rebellious to the point of beating his own father.

    After the second black eye the man I worked for went to his brother's farm, grabbed his nephew by the beard (they had long beards) and clobbered him. The boy never laid a hand on his father again. He drove the foolishness out of him. And thank God, the boy feared somebody, even if it wasn't daddy.

    Did the man abuse his nephew?
     
    #43 Aaron, Feb 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2009
  4. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    I do think there is a legal issue involved here, at the very least.

    No, I do not think it is wise to do what he did. I would call it abuse. If the "boy" had a beard, then he was a grown man. I think it would be much more appropriate to call the police.

    Now...would I want to do what was done to that "kid"? At times, I might...but that doesn't mean I should give in to that.

    The Scripture says, "In your anger, do not sin." I believe this individual did.
     
    #44 rbell, Feb 8, 2009
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Take the situation for what it is. I've seen juniors in high school with full beards. You're also ignoring the fact that a trend had been set. To think the man just got hot and went over there is not to consider that facts that have been presented.

    But the statutes are irrelevent. It is not far off that it will soon be illegal here to spank one's child. Let's say the boy's father had clobbered him. Would you still say the boy was abused?

    Here's another true life situation. I know a man today whose son's rebellion was such that he called his mother an extremely profane name. The man clobbered his son. Was his son abused?
     
    #45 Aaron, Feb 8, 2009
  6. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    The end does not justify the means. Abuse may get the desired result, but it is still wrong. Brute force only addresses the action, not the heart attitude.
     
    #46 abcgrad94, Feb 8, 2009
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    I am trying to get the picture here. A lad down road from me is always blaspheming God. I shall go down road, clobber this lad, make him believe...the end result is he gets "saved"....Hurray! Praise the clobber!

    I am not sure it can or should work that way.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #47 Jim1999, Feb 8, 2009
  8. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    He still went over there and beat up another person. It's still a problem, and likely a crime.

    Apples and oranges. It wasn't the dad, and it wasn't a spanking. It was a grown man beating up a minor.
     
    #48 rbell, Feb 8, 2009
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    If a teenager needs corporal punishment, the parent did not do a good job parenting through the younger years. In our experience, we were able to stop spanking around 8 years old. By that time they knew the rules, knew the consequences and were also now being raised to have wisdom and understanding. Corporal punishment was no longer needed (we have a 16 year old daughter and an almost 19 year old daughter in addition to our little ones so that's how far our experience has gone).

    Yes, if the father 'clobbered' his son, then he abused him. This was a young man big enough to have a beard. Whether he was a junior in high school or not, he was large enough to have passed through puberty. If the father did not have his child's heart by that time - enough that he could have spoken wisdom to him and had the child repentant, then he did not do well in his parenting.

    Yes. However, I'd like to to describe "clobber" because the definition that I have IS abuse. If he struck the boy across his face, that would not be abuse IMO. But again, if the child is so rebellious that he would feel comfortable to call his mother a profane name, the family has much larger problems. Abuse will not solve that heart problem with the child.
     
    #49 annsni, Feb 8, 2009
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    No corporeal punishment addresses anything but the action. No one is advocating the administration of physical pain as the only parenting duty or skill required. My question in each case was, was the boy abused?
     
    #50 Aaron, Feb 9, 2009
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    It was a close family member who drove the foolishness from his nephew.
     
    #51 Aaron, Feb 9, 2009
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    That's simply not true, and irrelevant. My examples are extreme, but you insisted on taking my use of the term "clobber," literally, so I presented a couple where a literal clobbering was warranted.

    Which is not the ground and pillar of the truth.

    Maybe, maybe not. It's no excuse for disrespect and rebellion. Don't assume this boy was the only child.



    The boy (man, today) is a homosexual. His father was an elder in his home church and the discipline was loving and consistent. We won't go into how the boy got involved in pornography and the suspicions surrounding his youth minister at the time and other influences that crept in outside the home in the public school that perverted this boy's lust. If the Lord doesn't keep the city, the watchmen wake in vain.

    In one of the episodes where the situation was being addressed, the boy called his mother an f-ing whore. The man caught the kid under the chin with both fists. The blow sent the teen against the wall and to the floor. While the mother was weeping, his father then stood over him and warned him to stay there until things cooled off, and they could continue their talk.

    In both cases I've presented, the clobbering was warranted. Under Moses, both kids would have been stoned.
     
    #52 Aaron, Feb 9, 2009
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Can you show me Scripturally where anyone but the parent is charged with disciplining their children?
     
    #53 annsni, Feb 9, 2009
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yes...........
     
    #54 annsni, Feb 9, 2009
  15. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    So then it was a close family member who went too far, broke the law, acted in anger wrongly, and assaulted his nephew. That doesn't change the issue, and the wrongdoing.
     
    #55 rbell, Feb 9, 2009
  16. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Sorry, you can argue for a "clobbering" all you want...that doesn't make it Biblical, or right.

    Doesn't sound like it did much good...did it?

    So, you advocate killing rebellious kids as well?
     
    #56 rbell, Feb 9, 2009
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I believe we should train our children with a reward system. A reward system teaches the child how to do right by praise and reward. The hardest part of it is consistency. The Bible says;
    Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
    Training isn't so hard. There are plenty of good books on training and most of them all teach a rewards system. They are the same techniques used to train animals. They are tried and proven. Although it helps if the trainer has been trained them selves.
    I have a lot of admiration of a lady who works in our nursery at Church. She takes about 20 children to watch during the main service. Some of them are real brats. When they walk through her door they all become little angles. Part of it is because they have come to know her but most of it is because she trains them with a reward system. How one person could be so brave and calm at the same time. The kids just love her they think its great to be with her.
    MB
     
    #57 MB, Feb 9, 2009
  18. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I have a great problem with comparing our children to animals. With animals, we are looking for just a behavior change. We are not looking to save their souls. There is one particular book out there that speaks on child discipline and compares it to training horses (To Train Up a Child) and his premise is 100% wrong. If I trained my horses (one of which is now 1600 lbs. and he measures 5'9" at his withers - the base of his mane where it comes into his back), I'd have a massive killing machine on my hands. We cannot treat our animals as these people say and we certainly cannot train our children like animals. Not once does God tell us to do so and I think it is 100% wrong to even consider such a teaching.
     
    #58 annsni, Feb 9, 2009
  19. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Of course I'm taking your term "clobber" literally because that's all you are using. Words mean something and if you use the term "clobber", it means abuse. If you meant a controlled spanking, that is a different story but then use an appropriate term. I do not think a clobbering is ever warranted but then again, as I said, I haven't had to spank my kids after 8 years old - and for some, it's even before that.

    No - but experience is important. In Titus 2, I am instructed to teach other women how to love their husbands and children. I can do that from my own experience.

    If the father parented properly, I do not think he would have had a rebellious child. And if he did everything right and he still ended up with a rebellious child, abusing him will not rescue his heart. It will only make a rebellious child more rebellious.

    Punching a child with both fists is abuse. He also could have just thrown the child out of the home and let him reap the consequences of his actions. But the child very easily could have had the father rightly arrested for assault. If the child was abused, then this is a case for counseling - not abuse.

    The clobbering was warranted in your opinion. I disagree. Yes, under Moses, the child would have been stoned but there is a lot under Moses that we are not to follow anymore.
     
    #59 annsni, Feb 9, 2009
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Sounds like your beef is with God.
     
    #60 Aaron, Feb 9, 2009
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