Nailed to The Cross

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by wopik, Feb 5, 2006.

  1. wopik

    wopik
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    Colossians 2:13-14 has to do with Jesus forgiving us of our trespasses / sins.

    verse 13 – “...having forgiven you all trespasses;”

    verse 14 – “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances / record of debt....”

    These two phrases are appositives; they are equivalent.


    Jesus forgave our trespasses; HE blotted out our 'record of debt'.


    The 'handwriting of ordinances' is where our trespasses (sins) are written down ---- which Jesus "nailed to His cross". Jesus became sin for us - 2cor 5:21.


    -------------- different translations -----------


    COLOSSIANS 2:14

    The New Living Translation -- He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to Christ's cross.


    GOD'S WORD -- He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross.


    The Message -- the slate wiped clean, that old arrest warrant canceled and nailed to Christ's Cross.


    The Complete Jewish Bible -- He wiped away the bill of charges against us. Because of the regulations, it stood as a testimony against us; but he removed it by nailing it to the execution-stake.
     
  2. Eliyahu

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    Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections F12 and lusts

    I was born again with this verse:

    2:20
    I am crucified with Christ : nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    I myself was crucified !
     
  3. hillclimber

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    I've never heard that the "Law" was nailed to the cross, but that our sin debt was, so I don't understand your original premise.
     
  4. wopik

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    hi all,


    quite a few preachers and christians like to say the law was nailed to the cross, and thererore, done away with. That is a false concept.
     
  5. Chemnitz

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    Can't say as I have ever heard somebody say the above.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    Excellent post Wopik.

    Given the choice between destroying His own Law for morality and paying the DEBT that it demands - God choice to have the DEBT pay - thus "Do we abolish the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

    Rom 2:11-13 "for it is not the HEARERS of the Law of God that will be justified but the DOERS of God's Law will be JUSTIFIED"

    The link between justification (within the context of repentance and the Gospel as Romans 2 points out) and the LAw of God is clearly made in Romans 2;11-13 and in Rom 3:31 and the DEBT PAID is clearly addressed in Col 2!!

    Perfect harmony in scripture!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

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    WoW! Now that really is good news!
     
  8. BobRyan

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    Music to my ears -- err um -- eyes
     
  9. Don

    Don
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    Most of the preachers I personally know prefer to say "the Law was fulfilled," not "done away with.

    However, Wopik, please be careful that you're not advocating a return to being under the Law, relying on the Law for our salvation.
     
  10. BobRyan

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    There is only "ONE Gospel".

    The "Gospel was preached to US JUST as it was to THEM ALSO" Heb 4:1-2

    Those who "fear to go back to the Law" are creating a "Second Gospel" a Gospel of "LAW" that they imagine to have existed in the OT.

    Paul argues in Gal 3 that LAW was NEVER GIVEN (not even in the OT) as a MEANS of salvation!

    Why is this such a hard concept??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. BobRyan

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    #1. Those who speak of Christ "perfectly fulfilling the Law" almost never say that in connection with Colossians 2.

    #2. Christ perfectly fulfilled the law to "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5. HE also "perfectly fulfilled" the Law to "Love your Neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

    There is no question that Christ perfectly FULFILLED the LAW. But that did not "Abolish" the LAW.

    "Do we THEN abolish the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

    "So live and so act as those who ARE to be judged by that Law of LIBERTY"! James 2

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Don

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    Not sure what you're driving at, Mr. Ryan. If you're taking umbrage with my post, then please clarify what you're looking for from me, or for me to understand from you.
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Sometimes people will use the idea of "fulfill" as being equivalent to "keep then abolish". But as we see with Lev 19;18 and Deut 6:5 - that is not true.

    Sometimes people will use the idea of "Salavation by law" as if that was "God's chosen method in the OT" they then claim that to obey God as He asked in the OT is to "use that previous method of salvation". But God says that IN BOTH OT and NT the method was "the Gospel" the "one Gospel" for all time. See the previous two posts.

    My point with Romans 3 and James 2 (and Romans 2) is that even in the NT God has the same firm regard for His Word - His Law. The Gospel is not a call to rebellion in the NT.

    I don't know that this is against something you bevlieve - in fact I hope you are in full acceptance of what the scripture says in these specific areas.

    So far all the posts have been surprisingly tolerant of what God has said regarding His own Word - His own Law.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. Don

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    I believe we're in agreement on this subject.

    Galatians 2 tells us the law was our schoolmaster, to bring us unto Christ; and that upon Christ, the law was fufilled.

    God never intended the law to be our means of salvation, as made plain in Hebrews ("by faith"). It was men who made it more than it was.

    The fact that the Old Testament laws are echoed throughout the New Testament (Romans 13, for example) only indicates that the law is still applicable for guidance--or, as I teach my Sunday School kids, to let us know what God likes and doesn't like, so we know if we're making Him happy or sad.

    By the same token, however, as we're reminded in Acts, we must be careful that we don't re-implement things that place a yoke that was never meant to be.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    If we "re-implement" something God never commanded in the first place - then it is "man made tradition" that is being passed off as though it were ever "law".

    If we insist on obedience instead of rebellion regarding the same commands of God (Lets say "Love your neighbor" and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5) that we find in God's Word -- then we are in harmony with the Gospel (the one Gospel of all time) that "Writes the Law of God on the heart" in all ages for the saved.

    In the one Gospel - there is "The New Birth" there is the "LAW of God written on the heart" there is the call to turn from rebellion to obedience (Romans 6 for example).

    That is the same in the OT as in the NT.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. wopik

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    There is good reason to believe that "the law was our schoolmaster" is refering to the law of sacrifices, of bulls and goats, the shedding of BLOOD of bulls and goats. This law would end with Christ's sacrifice (Heb 10).


    For this "schoolmaster law" was ADDED 430 years after.... (Gal 3:17), and it was ADDED because of transgressions...... vs 19. Another previous law was being broken / transgressed!


    "for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice.

    However, I did give them this command: Obey Me, and then I will be your God, and you will be My people. You must walk in every way I command you so that it may go well with you."

    -- Jeremiah 7:22-23, Holman Christian Standard Bible
     
  17. wopik

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    Good for you. Teach another generation about God and Jesus.
     
  18. Don

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    Hope you understand that I'm agreeing with you....
     
  19. wopik

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    but the "schoolmaster" sacrifices are done away.

    Not the Ten Commandments, with the 4th (Sabbath day) Commandment.


    "Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath." This admonition is directed at Jesus’ own followers. And such instructions would have had little place in a non-Sabbath-keeping community.

    Scholars are almost unanimous in agreeing that this refers at least to a time as late as the 66-70 war against Rome, long after Jesus' death. (The dual implications of this prophecy also show that Jesus knew that the Sabbath would be kept by His people millennia later in the "time of the end.")


    http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml
     
  20. Eliyahu

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    I respect those who keeps the commandments of OT, and believe it may be wise that we separate the ceremonial law and moral law.

    "Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on Sabbath" might have been addressed to Messianic Jews at the time of Judean War 66-73 AD.

    I wonder whether those people who keep Sabbath celebrate Lord Supper on the first day of the week, collect the donation on the first day of the week, as Early Church did (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor 16:1-2), moreover, whether their ladies wear Head-covering in the worship service.

    To me, 365 days are the sabbath in the Lord.
    What Holy Spirit revealed us in NT has the priority, then we follow OT commandments unless specified in NT otherwise, because OT teaches us about Christ.
     

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