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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Boanerges, Feb 6, 2006.
No thanks, I don't need anymore to chew on
I wouldn't say it's more to chew on, I'd more compare it to syrup of ipecac.
No thanks. Nothing you've ever posted on the topic is remotely worthy of consideration.(**Moderator's choice of words**)
[ February 07, 2006, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
Good...then drink it up and you will hack up that narnia stuff...then you will feel soooo much better :-O
No thanks. Nothing you've ever posted on the topic is remotely worthy of digestion. </font>[/QUOTE]***Personal attack removed***
c'mon now...I know you all read it
[ February 07, 2006, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
OK, just to throw a bit of gas on the fire...
I looked at the link (I know, I know). I DID learn that according to this site, by watching Narnia, I should have an overwhelming desire to copulate with goats. (Sorry, I can't make this stuff up).
Strange, doesn't seem to be happening...oh well.
Some folks need a hobby.
Yes, I also learned that while we may think of creatures such as unicorns, dwarves, fauns and nymphs as being creations of the human imagination, these are actually demons with these actual physical properties. Yes, you heard it here--unicorns are real! And they're demons to boot!
Never mind that this seems to go against what the Bible teaches about demons, but I guess in that respect the Bible is just not interesting enough for Mr. Sorensen.
I feel like I'm at school when one of the kids says something that isn't about math.
I love fantasy; I love science fiction; I like a good grisly murder mystery -- as long as they are free from curse words and sexual references -- but I love the unicorns, dwarves, fairies, and fauns . . .
After reading a couple screenfuls of that page, I'm not going to chew on it. It's already been digested.
I haven't seen the Narnia movie yet, so I can't comment knowledgeably on that. I do enjoy fantasy, however, as well as speculative fiction in general. Being an aspiring writer myself, I tend to inject Christian ideas into my work whenever I can, and my guiding principle is to glorify God in all I do. Most Christian writers have the same goal. Naturally, no book should replace Scripture in the life of its readers, but a good work of fiction can provide wholesome entertainment, even stimulation, for those seeking a diversion from the usual questionable fare. Such works have their place, and can even be edifying if God chooses to work in that way (there is such a thing as the gift of teaching through the written word). The Bible is the book we should read most often, of course, but it's no sin to enjoy books produced by a sanctified imagination.
I went to the site. I don't particularly endorse everything that young couple had to offer. Yet I will say this. It seems to me that the only christian people these days that believe that the symbolism of paganism that is portrayed in movies like Narnia etc.. can be harmful are people that have been involved in cultic practices or they have experienced some form of oppression from Satan be it through drugs or whatever.
I took my kids to see Narnia and I'm a baptist pastor/missionary.
Durning my teenage years and into my early twenties I was heavily involved in Heavy metal rock and roll, heavy drugs and alcohol abuse along with hanging out with people that were seriously into Satanic worship along with other cultic practices.
Now obviously I'm not a fanatic when it comes to what I will let my kids watch or listen to or I wouldn't have taken them to see Narnia.Yet I'm very careful when it comes to this fantasy stuff.
I will say from personal experience that when you mix hard core rock n roll with drugs and booze your giving the devil access to your mind period.
I went to high school with a fellow whom I used to party with. He worshiped the devil. FOR REAL.
One time he put the pentagram thing on the floor of his room and lit candles etc... He was a All state wrestler who received a full ride to a Div. I. school.
You want to know how he became such a good wrestler? He flat out told me and some buds that he made a deal with satan that if he would make him a state champ he would do Satan's bidding. He is one of the few undefeated state champions in wrestling in the history of my home state. He neve lost a match. He finally got saved and now gives his testimony everywhere.
I have a cousin who for years was into heavy drug use and occultism. I could hardly stand to get high with him because of the evil vibes etcc... that got stirred up when we got stoned together.
He used to keep the most wicked looking gargoyles and druid figures around his house. He used to draw some of the most evil looking renditions of that kind of stuff you would ever want to see.
He is out of that life now praise God.
My father in law was a missionary in Africa for 35yrs. He led more than one witch doctor to the Lord who later would not even allow my father in law to keep his witch doctor tools as curios because of the evil vibes instilled in those things.
During my days as a pot head rock n roller there was more than one time that I felt like Satan or a demon or something was near me or what have you. When I finally surrendered my life to the Lord and the call to preach I was in bad shape as far as drugs booze etc... I took a trip with my family out west. I guess it was my "drying out" time before going off to Bible college that fall.
I will never forget the oppression from satan that I experienced those two weeks. Now understand I'm not a bapticostal or anything like it. I will say though that there was more than one night in the darkness of hotel rooms that I sat wide awake with my Bible on my chest repeating the name of Jesus over and over. It was like the most wicked evil thing I had ever experienced except when I was messed up on dope and listening to hard core music.
I know these are just little illustrations of particular experiences but what I'm driving at is this. The majority of folk tend to pass spiritual, occult things off. Its like they say :
Well, I believe those sort of things but that
stuff only goes on with serial killers or other
The point is this everytime somebody on this board like Boanerges tries to shed some light on some possible negative influences of occult symbolism or what have you concerning C.S. Lewis or whom ever they almost get laughed or scorned off the post.
You can refuse to admit it if you want but Lewis did dabble in the connections between mythology and the message of God, redemption, Christ etc...
He is not the only one to do this.
It is quite possible that Lewis and his stories were never done to stir up demons per say. I don't think they were. Yet there can be credence given to the fact that he does borrow heavily from occult figures, magic etc.... It makes sense given the fact that due to his writings he is often times perceived as one who has christian mysticism leanings. His writings bear that out.
Boanerges is exactly right when he claims that Narnia is widely read in occultic circles, new age etc... Visit those kinds of book store you will see. Hang out with those kinds of people you will find out.
Jesus and His Gospel is to be lifted up before men. When He is He will draw men to Himself.
Movies like Narnia , christian fantasy etcc... Those things whether on purpose or not "Blend Jesus in".
I did take my kids to see Narnia. I liked the movie. Yet I didn't like the fact that it seemed that there was a hodge podge of believe systems,myths etc... that were all rolled together in that movie. My kids didn't know it or recognize it nor did I tell them.
I tell you who would see it and take note. Folk that are into cultic practices.
You can call me a nut job or what have you but the more mainstream folk are accepting of this kind of entertainment where beliefs and myths and christianity are somehow jelled together the more conditioned people are going to be to receive a lie someday wholeheartily and they are going to swear it is the truth.
If you want to lead someone to Christ all you have to do is introduce them to the Christ of the Bible not Aslan in Narnia.
The Bible tells us not to dabble in sourcery, magic, etc...
The bottom line is this. Occultic figures, symbols little sayings etc... They mean something. They carry weight. They may not mean nothing to evangelicals who are always waiting for the next big thing in so called christian entertainment. I tell you what though those signs, figures, symbols etc... they mean a great deal to the devil. They speak volumes for those who are involved in witch craft etc... They also mean something to those christian brothren who have been delivered from such darkness.
What I'm saying is this. Don't be so quick to
dismiss what someone says about issues like this unless you have walked, truly walked on the dark, dark side of occultism. Your very naive if you do.
The prince of this world is very real. I say stay away from that kind of stuff no matter how
harmless it may seem.
I looked at the site.
So what? Lewis borrowed from Greek Mythology. And he allegorizes a beautiful meaningful story.
Let me ask you this:
Do you have columns on your house or church? Those come from pagan society as well. It's Greco-Roman.
Mr Tumnus did NOT even make me even THINK about having relations with a GOAT!!!! LOL. But I could relate to his struggle to do the right thing and to defend the King!
Nobody really wants to address the main issue.
Why does an supposed allegory of Christ have to be mixxed in with pagan figures etc.... Why do that if your trying to present a clear message of the Gospel? I say if because I'm not convinced that that is the chief emphasis of Lewis's Narnia.
BTW, the greatest allegory concerning Christ ever written was and is still today Pilgrim's Progress.
One doesn't have to debate what the point of that story is. Nor is it filled with ancient occultic
figures etc... Along with Santa Clause and everything else.
Was it Lewis's intention in writing Narnia to have it be used as another great tool for evangelism or is that a new thing that has been
recently discovered by Evangelicals who are constantly having to look outside the Bible for
"teaching moments" that can relate the Gospel to
I say Narnia was great entertainment and that was
Again, Bunyan didn't need any greek mythological or occultic figures to prop up his allegory of Redemption through Christ. Yet Lewis does.
Which allegory is clearer in the presentation of the Gospel? Pilgrim's Progress hands down.
Thank you, Shannon for a insightful post! I appreciate you and your careful thoughts!!
Let's review the subtle shades of grey (sometimes not so subtle) that Christians have embraced, and the heat that I have taken for discussing them:
The Passion movie:
Mysticism mixed with some Gospel.
Mysticism mixed with a supposed Christian allegory
A free wheeling "hip" paraphrase sprinkled with New Age/occultic terminology.
Chicken cordon bleu and chicken dung are not a good mixture. All Chicken, but not all that tasty when combined. How does one digest this on a spiritual level then? This is what I am talking about. Another Jesus and another Gospel are clearly accursed, as it is written.
And remember...surely you will not die........man that apple looks so tasty after satan polishes it up, doesn't it?. And make sure that you give all of your friends a bite.....(take them to see it)
[ February 07, 2006, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Boanerges ]
Some just love to keep things stirred up
Some refuse to look at the facts. I'm not a Lewis hater. I have two or three of his books. He is interesting reading etc...
Why do you come back and post your little
digs if your not interested yourself?
Answer or debate some of the things mentioned or go do something else. What is your opinion on the fact that occultic figures are used in Narnia? Do you think it is harmless, are you indifferent to the subject or what?
I would rather hear what a pastor thinks about particular issues etc... Than read silly, school boy replies.
If you think we are over reacting or you disagree that is your opinion and it is accepted but cut out the snide remarks. It is not pastoral. If one of your folk have concerns or questions is that how you treat them? Offer some imput pro or con or move on.
I think what bothers me about the whole thing and I think what bothers some other believers is the fact that Lewis is a christian and he chose to incorporate even innocently I suppose, greek and occultic mythology into a story that has an allegory that somewhat pertains to Christ. There is the rub.
I personally thought Lord of the Rings was a pretty good triology. I liked it even though I was uncomfortable with alot of the occultism that was in those movies. However Tolkien wasn't writing about God or Christ nor was he known to be a devout christian so to me no big deal because he wasnt' trying to send some kind of message that related to the Gospel through the movie. Yes good conquered evil etc... but that is not the same.
I just often times think that evangelicals put Lewis on some kind of pedestal that Lewis himself would not agree with. I personally dont think the man was as evangelical as evangelicals like to make him out to be.
And some like to bury their heads in the sand, relying on feelings more than the Word of God as a tool of discernment. Rest assured, that the storm will still come, even if you can't see it coming.