Narnia

Why do I need to search out unrighteous judgeing when there is so much here?

You gotta quite falsely accusing your brothers of things they do not do. I'm not holding my breath.

 

Sometimes, I find the kooky sites kind of interesting, because even a blind squirrel finds a “nut” once in a while. The name Aslan means “lion”, but there is another name that is close in pronunciation:


What is this secret doctrine? There are interesting scriptural
parallels with it, and the biblical account of Lucifer's, or Satan's,
fall from heaven.

The first unicorn--wrapped in a cloud came he. By a bright whirlwind
borne along, he descended gently from the heavens to the infant fields
of earth, even before the fires of its forming were yet. Thus, did the
unicorn possess the brightness of the light that he might drive all
darkness and obscurity from him. He was called "Asalam" --of
unicorns, the first born. A creature fearfully wrought and wonderful to
behold, bearing a horn of spiral light that is the sign of Galgalum
the Guide.
Could it be that Tolkien used the name Gollum from "Galgalum the Guide"?

http://www.illuminati-news.com/tolkien-occult.htm

So I went to a Masonic site. It seems that they are interested in allegory. They also like Tolkien and Lewis:

"VEILED in ALLEGORY ...
An allegory is a "narrative description of a subject under guise of another suggestively similar" (Concise Oxford Dictionary). That is, it is a story in which the characters are symbols. An allegory may be sustained for quite a while. At first an unwary reader may believe that he is beginning a novel. As he proceeds, it gradually dawns on him that he is reading about something quite different from what he thought, that he is being "preached at" or somehow "i got at" in an indirect way.
The best known allegory in English is Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. Ostensibly it is a series of random adventures met with by a hero named Christian on his journey to the Celestial City. On another level it portrays the tribulations endured by the soul of a believer in the course of his life. Even today the allegory is far from dead. The reader of the C. S. Lewis series of Narnia stories gradually comes to the realization that the compassionate, just, and awesome lion Aslan is none other than God. J. R. R.
Tolkien's magnificent trilogy The Lord of the Rings is in some sense a portrayal of the struggle between good and evil. Not infrequently allegory is combined with satire. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the beasts take over, and proceed to behave like various recognizable breeds of politician.
Allegory always strives to combine entertainment with instruction. As a teaching method, it is sanctioned by long usage. The older and briefer specimens are known by other names. Aesop's fables, with their moral lessons, are nothing but allegories. The greatest teacher of all time taught by allegories, but he called them parables; everyone will recall, for example, the Prodigal Son.

http://www.mainemason.org/aboutfm/stb53.htm

 

So what? That's as silly as those who claim "Turkish delight" is an opiate. It's immaterial, irrelevant, and the result of those same kooks grabbing at straws.

 

found some interesting info on the occult in Narnia from a former occultist, witch and astrologer:


The story of the Narnian Chronicle known as The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is one of clandestine occult mysticism and is not Sunday School material unless your Sunday School is a defacto witch coven. The story involves a child from the normal everyday or mundane world. This girl, Lucy, who hides in a wardrobe as she is playing a game, suddenly finds herself transported to another world very unlike her own. It is a world of intelligent, talking animals and strange creatures. The little girl soon finds herself having tea with a faun. In witchcraft and ancient Roman pagan mythology, a faun is any of a group of rural deities, which have the bodies of men and the horns, ears, tails, and legs of a goat. The Roman god Faunus was also the god of nature and fertility and was connected to sexual lust. Here let it be noted that in the Narnian Chronicle Prince Caspian, this same strange land the little girl finds herself in is also populated by gods and goddesses; such as Bacchus, the god of drunken orgies, and the Maenads, who were frenzied women driven to madness in the orgiastic cult of Bacchus.

The main character of the book is a lion named Aslan, which is the Turkish word for lion. Aslan the lion is the character that “Christian” teachers say is the Christ figure, but witches know him to be Lucifer. The lion, Aslan, appears in all seven of the books of The Chronicles of Narnia. The following are quotes regarding Aslan the lion:

“At the name of Aslan, Lucy got the feeling you get when you wake in the morning and realize it is the beginning of spring.”

“When he bares his teeth, winter meets its death; and when he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again.”

“He’ll be coming and going; one day you’ll see him and another you won’t.”

“It was a lion, huge, shaggy; and bright it stood facing the rising sun.”

“Aslan swings his head around scattering golden gleams of light as he does so.”

Remember, Aslan the lion is esteemed to be the “Christ figure” by so many “Christian” teachers, but with that in mind, consider the following quotes from The Chronicles of Narnia.

“The crowd and dance round Aslan (for it had become a dance once more) grew so thick and rapid that Lucy was confused. She never saw where certain other people came from who were soon capering among the trees. One was a youth, dressed only in a fawn skin, with vine leaves wreathed in his curly hair. His face would have been almost too pretty for a boy’s, if it had not looked so extremely wild. You felt, as Edmund said when he saw him a few days later, ‘There’s a chap who might do anything, absolutely anything.’ He seemed to have a great many names – Bromios, Bassareus, and the Ram were three of them. There were a lot of girls with him, as wild as he. There was even, unexpectedly, someone on a donkey. And everybody was laughing: and everyone was shouting out, ‘EUAN, EUAN, EU-oi-oi-oi.’”

Those strange words EUAN, EUAN, EU-oi-oi-oi are an ancient witches’ chant used to invoke the power and presence of the god of drunkenness and addiction, who is named Bacchus. But wait, as the story goes on, it gets worse as the witchcraft increases and becomes more obvious. Consider the following: “‘What is it Aslan?’ said Lucy, her eyes dancing and her feet wanting to dance. ‘Come children’, said he. ‘Ride on my back today.’ ‘Oh lovely!’ cried Lucy, and both girls climbed on to the warm golden back as they had done no one knew how many years before. Then the whole party moved off – Aslan leading. Bacchus and his Maenads leaping, rushing and turning somersaults, the beasts brushing round them, and Silenus and his donkey bringing up the rear… Then three or four Red Dwarfs came forward with their tinder boxes and set light to the pile, which first crackled, and then blazed, and finally roared as a woodland bonfire on midsummer night ought to do. And every-one sat down in a wide circle around it. Then Bacchus and Silenus and the Maenads began a dance, far wilder than the dance of the trees, not merely a dance for fun and beauty (though it was that too), but a magic dance of plenty, and where their hands touched, and where their feet fell, the feast came into existence. Sides of roasted meat that filled the grove with delicious smell, and wheaten cakes and oaten cakes…”

The above is clearly a description of a witches’ sabat of Midsummer or the Summer Solstice, and it is described as such in perfect detail. Certainly by now enough is known to denounce this work as satanic and antichrist.

Was Clive Staples Lewis a Christian or a blasphemer? In his book The World’s Last Night and Other Essays on pages 98-99, Lewis said, “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place… certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.The one exhibition of error and the one confession of ignorance grow side by side. That they stood thus in the mouth of Jesus himself and were not merely placed thus by the reporter, we surely need not doubt… The facts, then, are these: that Jesus professed himself (in some sense) ignorant, and within a moment showed that he really was so.”

Lewis also said in Reflections on the Psalms, page 129, “… as I believe, Christ… fulfilled both paganism and Judaism.” Lewis was also quoted in a biography as follows: “I had some ado to prevent joy and myself from relapsing into paganism in Attica! At Daphni it was hard not to pray to Apollo the Healer. But somehow one didn’t feel it would have been very wrong – would have only been addressing Christ sub-species Apollinis.”


http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/narnia_chronicles.html

 

Find all the "info" you want. It doesn't make your position any less pharisaical, unrighteous, or legalistic.

 

Find all the "info" you want. It doesn't make your position any less pharisaical, unrighteous, or legalistic. </font>[/QUOTE]And it doesn't make your position any less unfactual, with your head buried in the sand John. Experiential faith is deadly John. Time to take off the glasses and take a look. If only 25% of the facts are correct, the problem is still of a major proportion.

 

Sorry, I wear no such glasses. I speak with objectivity on the topic. You can't even comment wituout tossing in an off-topic comment like "Experiential faith" and the like.

Feel free to continue posting here, the same manner as you have been doing. You and eloidalmanutha continue to lose credibility with every post.

That's a likewise false assumption. One could easily say "if only 25% of Loch Ness Monster sightings are correct, then there are still enough sighting to prove it exists. And in saying so, one would come off as equally ridiculous.

 

john v wrote:
"That's a likewise false assumption. One could easily say "if only 25% of Loch Ness Monster sightings are correct, then there are still enough sighting to prove it exists. And in saying so, one would come off as equally ridiculous."

are you saying nessie doesn't exit??????

 

I thought CS Lewis was one of those who at first was an avowed atheist and actually tried to disprove the Bible. So to find something he wrote that fit that profile wouldnt be all that surprising.

Or am I thinking of someone else? But I thought I remembered reading that he became a professing Christian later in life, and after he had been an author for awhile.

 

Shhhh!!! Don't let it get out.

 

John,

The Fog of feelings is obviously hindering you from examining the facts and dealing with them directly. Did CS Lewis'brother in law not state those things publicly?

 

I am curious, John, if you really believe that God would use Greek mythology [gods and goddesses and demonic figures] to proclaim the Gospel message?

Quote:
Lewis defended his use of different mythologies.

"He called [them] 'good dreams' that God sent humankind to prepare them for the 'true myth,' which, for Lewis, was the incarnation," said Bruce Edwards, an English professor and Lewis expert at Bowling Green State University in Ohio. "He believed myths were not legends but alternate histories that echoed our mysterious past."

Lewis especially loved Norse and Icelandic myths, which he fell in love with as a child through the Longfellow adaptations of Norse tales and through Richard Wagner's operas.

He also had a very deep knowledge of ancient Greek literature. As a teenager he translated whole Greek tragedies, and that mythology shaped him more and more as he got older.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1209_051209_narnia_lewis_2.html

 

Quote:
In Lewis's own words:

"Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument; then collected information about child-psychology and decided what age group I'd write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn't write in that way at all. Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord" (Of Other Worlds, p. 36).

So we see that Narnia was not by design Christian allegory. Yet even if Christian allegory or analogy was Lewis's intention, the fact is that the truth of God, when couched in terms less than accurate, is open to question. Aside from the fact that when presented as myth the truth may be mistaken for myth, no clear understanding can be forthcoming without prior knowledge of the truth -- in which case the allegory or analogy is useless. In any case, it is dangerous to present evil as good, and magic as synonymous with the miracle-working power of the Holy Spirit (Isa. 5:20, Acts 8:9-23).

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/general.htm#Occult%20Fantasy

 

I think you missed the point:

"Lewis was careful to debunk the idea that Narnia was a mere allegory to the Christian story. Rather, Lewis said that his theology merely "bubbled" up to the surface of his story. Because of his commitment to Christ, biblical truths would find themselves into his creation. Lewis explains: "Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sled, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord. It was part of the bubbling."

"The story of Narnia is not a biblical allegory." emphasis mine "Rather it grows out of a central Christian supposition held by Lewis. Suppose there was another world, much like ours, but filled with talking animals rather than human beings. Suppose that world fell into sin, like ours, and needed a savior much like Jesus.

"Aslan entered Narnia as a lion, just as Jesus came into our world in the form of a man. Based upon this supposition, Lewis created a fantasy world that mirrored the central theme in our world—salvation through the death and resurrection of God's son. The magical part of Lewis' story is that somehow we are drawn more deeply into our relationship with God in the real world through our encounter with Narnia."

http://www.planetwisdom.com/seanmcdowell/findinggodinnarnia.php

 

quote:
"Aslan entered Narnia as a lion, just as Jesus came into our world in the form of a man. Based upon this supposition, Lewis created a fantasy world that mirrored the central theme in our world—salvation through the death and resurrection of God's son. The magical part of Lewis' story is that somehow we are drawn more deeply into our relationship with God in the real world through our encounter with Narnia."


so you are agreeing that God will use fantasy, magic, the occult, greek mythology, and witchcraft to mirror the Gospel message - all written by a man who calls Jesus, the Son of God, an "Apollinis sub-species" . . .

 

Find all the "info" you want. It doesn't make your position any less pharisaical, unrighteous, or legalistic. </font>[/QUOTE]Dear John, how can you be so judgmental? Do I detect bitterness and rancor in your post?

 

You're kidding aren't you? In this topic, I've been accused of being everything from a pentacostal to a compromiser to "feeling" driven by you and your ilk. These tags seems to get tossed out whenever the self-righteousness that you guys espouse is challenged.

This has nothing to do withthe topic at hand. It's clear that you have no interest in honest, respectful, sincere, and healthy discussion. When you get to a point where you can discuss the topic and not engage in blind nametagging, let me know.

Which things do you refer to? It seems that the only thing way one can take issue with any quotes is if one has a preconcieved notion of the subject matter being wrong in teh first place. Which ultimately means that the issue you folks have is not with TLTWATW, but whether any fictional stories containing scipturally moral analogy, allegory, or inference should be acceptible to the Christian. You folks have decided they should not be. I disagree.

 

God can use what He wishes. So long as one does not equate a nonscriptural story to scripture, then I see no problem with reading greek mythology, medieval literature, or similar stories.

 

God can use what He wishes. So long as one does not equate a nonscriptural story to scripture, then I see no problem with reading greek mythology, medieval literature, or similar stories. </font>[/QUOTE]however; the general christian populace believes that Narnia does equate its imagery to the Bible.
If God says that witchcraft and magic are an abomination to Him, do you think He changed His mind just for CS Lewis?

 

As background, I was very much into C.S. Lewis as a college student and young adult. However, I have grown from awe and admiration to disenchantment. A serious and in-depth study of Lewis led me to disavow the guy as a credible spokesperson of modern Christianity. I think American Christians are bowled over by the aura of his intellectualism and myth.

Why are conservative American Christians so impressed by a man who would qualify as a liberal and theological heretic?
1. He did not believe in the inerrancy of Scripture.
2. He accepted the aberrant mystical theology of Charles Williams and praised him as the greatest living theologian. I cannot see how any Christian could be gulled by such blatant heresy as the garbage Charles Williams produced. Williams was thoroughly saturated in mysticism and was a member of the Rosicrucian society. Through the Inklings and personal friendship, he greatly influenced Lewis’s thought and writings.
3. He did not believe in Hell.
4. He tried to make his coming to Christ as an intellectual thing although he was at loss how and said so.
5. In his writings, he mixes his bad theology with orthodox theology. How can we claim this as a good tool for evangelism when the sinner receives a mixture of bad and good?

Can someone please summarize what makes Clives such a wonderful Christian spokesperson and darling of the evangelical world?

Even his apologetics was flawed. He was not really a good apologist and forwarded some weak arguments. Admittedly, he had a flair and aura of intellectualism. He was a decent scholar on 16th century English literature but he was not an orthodox theologian.

Now, we are promoting the Disney movie, Narnia, as the greatest tool of evangelism since Gutenberg invented the printing press. If the book was a mix of good and bad theology, what can we expect from homosexual-promoting organization such as Disney.