NASCAR Hall Of Fame

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Bob Alkire, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Glad to see that the Silver Fox got into the NASCAR Hall of Fame. In my book it was a year late, for David Pearson.

    I was listening on the radio last year and Richard Petty, Cale Yarborough, Ned Jarrett and a few more said he was the best that they ever raced against. I couldn't believe if all these top drivers believed he was the best, why didn't he get in last year?

    Along with David, Bobby Allison, Lee Petty, Ned Jarrett and Bud Moore are now in the NASCAR Hall Of Fame.
     
  2. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's all about Politics. Always has been in NASCAR. Pearson was amazing, but wasn't the limelight guy...wasn't the guy always saying how great the sport was.

    It'll be the same reason that years from now Harry Gant is still on the outside looking in. It's the same reason Yarborough (and Waltrip for that matter) didn't get in this year.
     
  3. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like Harry Gant just fine, but 18 Cup wins and 21 Busch/Nationwide wins does not make a Hall of Fame career.
     
  4. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob, are you saying that David Pearson should have gotten in over Junior Johnson? I'm not sure he should have, because I think the HoF voters were putting in Junior for more than just being a great driver. Junior was a great driver, and an even better car owner. He's been out of Nascar for 15 years and some of the things he did, such as bring in big sponsors like Lowe's, are still a vital part of Nascar today.
     
  5. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe Junior was put in mainly for the Winston deal, if I recall my history correctly.

    All I was saying that if the Richard Petty, Bobby Allison, Ned Jerrett, say he is the best along with the Bakers the same thing, and A.J. Foyt says he is the best driver of stock cars he had seen and the list goes on.

    In my mind he should have went in if it is for driving ahead of Dale Earnhardt. He only run for the championship a small amout of times, but he won it 3 times.

    But as David said, he believed Tim Flock and those early guys should have went in first. David and I differ on this and the ones who voted last year differ with me also. If most of the big named drivers thinks he is the best, he must have been.
     
  6. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Junior did the Winston deal? I though that was Bill France Jr's doing.

    I'll take Earnhardt over Pearson, but I admit to being very partial to Earnhardt and I may not be able to speak objectively. :)
     
  7. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I recall correctly Junior line it all up, I believe he got France and T. Wayne or another R.J. Reynolds man together and they worked out the deal.

    David I believe has a much better winning percentage than Earnhard or about anyone who ran for a while. As he said it only pays to lead the last lap. He was a smart driver.
     
  8. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Harry Gant was one of the most talented drivers to step foot in a race car. Many of his competitors mention that.

    Driving times are different now then when he raced. At some point non champions are going to be in the hall, and where do you go from there?

    When that time comes, Gant will be excluded for the same reasons that some guys get looked over on and let it at later dates: He's basically had nothing to do with the sport since hanging it up.
     
  9. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ultimately, you knew Earnhardt and Petty would be first class. No way you can overlook 7 championships, regardless of the amount of years and races that Pearson and Johnson ran.

    I agree, that based on what other drivers said, that Johnson was one of, if not the best driver in NASCAR history. Same is obviously said with Pearson and his 105 wins.

    I think the end means (early on) for selection is Championships and Wins. Petty is #1 in Both. Earnhardt is tied with petty for #1 in championships. Earnhardt is 6th in wins. I think some of the win numbers for Petty/Pearson also have to do with there being 50+ races in a season way back when.
     
    #9 Bobby Hamilton, Nov 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2010
  10. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Please. Don't bring up this talented drivers argument. Every driver who's won multiple Cup races has done so because they're talented.


    Junior Johnson is already in the Hall.


    Nonsense. Junior Johnson hasn't done anything with/for the sport since selling his team in 1995. I didn't see that keeping him out of the Hall.

    If it makes you feel better to think this, then by all means continue to think it. The problem is that he doesn't belong there in the first place. I'll say it again. 18 Cup wins, 21 Busch/Nationwide wins and 0 championships does not make a Hall of Fame career. I liked Harry as a driver, but the day that he gets in the Hall is the day it ceases to be the Hall of Fame.
     
  11. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    I think they did a pretty good job these first two years. With only five going in each year, it's hard to pick ten drivers and not tick a lot of people off. I think the reason why Darrell Waltrip has been left off these first two years is because early in his career, his ego was larger than Talladega. Plus, he seemed to have a polarizing personality in the early years, as well. Now, it's hard to over look three championships and 84 career wins, but like I said, with all the famous drivers through the years, so have to be left off, or expand the selection number to ten......I don't think they are willing to do that.

    Look at others who have been left off. Cale Yarlborough, Rusty Wallace, Tim Flock, etc. Hasn't Fireball Roberts been left off, too? So next year, so others will be ticked off, too. It will take ten years to get all the greats in, maybe even fifteen or twenty. Who knows. By that time, people like Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Jimmie Johnson, and others will probably be eligible, and some of the old timers may get pushed back even further. But this is something that will never satisfy everyone.

    Willis
     
  12. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Keep in mind for most of David Pearson's career, he didn't run all the races each year. David was in only 574 NASCAR races and won a 105 of them. He won 3 championships but as I said most of his career he didn't run for it.
     
  13. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can you define talent? John Andretti has multiple cup wins. You saying he's on the same level of Gant because neither have a title? What about someone like Michael Waltrip? I'll argue that at some point, if you are running a lot of races you'll eventually find your way to victory lane.

    Where did I say Johnson wasn't in the hall?

    Johnson was actively involved in two aspects: As a driver, and an owner. Cale wanted money to attend events, and has really had little to nothing to do with it since hanging it up.

    If Harry doesn't get in the Hall I have zero problem with it. As with any sports hall, you've gotta keep it limited to keep it diluted. If you want to make this personal by all means do so. Obviously the "years from now" statement you overlooked. I was saying that there are certain things that will keep one out of the hall....Gant was an example of having nothing to do with the sport.
     
    #13 Bobby Hamilton, Nov 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2010
  14. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would've been interesting to see what he could've done had he raced more.
     
  15. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey ccrobinson: What do you think qualifies one as fit for the NASCAR HOF? There are 26 or so drivers who have won NASCAR titles. 21 or so have won Busch/Nationwide titles. 10 have won truck titles. What happens when these guys (if you even think they should be in) get in...then who gets in? What's next? Wins? Runner up finishes? Winning %? Just curious.
     
  16. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Keep in mind Cale owned the 66 team for years. But he does enjoy getting paid to show up at things.
     
  17. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Keep in mind the NASCAR championship wasn't a big thing for less say Petty's first 4 or 5 of them, it was about money not the overall championship.

    The best drivers that I believe I've seen were;
    1. David Pearson
    2. Fireball Roberts ( maybe because he was a Florida boy)
    3. Richard Petty
    4. Red Farmer ( but he didn't do all that well as a NASCAR driver)
    5. Tim Flock and the monkey
    6. Bobby Allison
    7. Dale Earnhardt
    8. Ned Jarrett
    9. Cale Yarborough
    10. Lee Petty and Junior and Curtis Turner

    Best to me, I'm sure wouldn't be the same for many others.
     
  18. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did I actually say that John Andretti is on the same level as Harry Gant? Please provide a direct quote. You don't like the fact that my opinion of Harry isn't as high as yours, so you're cherry picking drivers to prove your point.


    Didn't you say that there would be drives in the Hall that hadn't won a championship, or did I imagine it? Junior won 50 races, but no championships, and he's in the Hall. You seemed to want to challenge me about drivers with no championships in the Hall and I already provided you a driver who's in the Hall without a championship.


    What does bringing up Cale Yarborough have to do with anything?


    Can I get some backing up music please? You clearly have a problem with it. I'm not making it personal. I haven't insulted you in any way. I have provided win and championship totals to prove my point. You have provided subjective, anecdotal analysis to prove your point.


    I overlooked nothing. You said that him having nothing to do with the sport since retiring was the reason he wouldn't be in the Hall. That doesn't hold any water, since Harry didn't have a Hall of Fame career in the first place.


    I have no idea. I've spent no time determining what my own qualifications are for somebody getting into the HoF.
     
  19. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, you didn't. Hence the "?" after my statement, which you didn't answer.
    You made a comment of talent based on winning multiple races. I'm asking you if you think someone like John Andretti (or Michael Waltrip) is as talented as Gant, and you blatantly ignored it. Harry was just an example I used from the beginning (and based on this year's HoF and who was left out I'll argue that the premise holds true) of a guy down the line who may be left out based on his inactivity in the sport. You jumped all over it with your HoF expertise, to which you don't even have your own opinion of. Don't confuse me bringing up Harry as me thinking he should be in sooner rather than later.



    Johnson was involved with the sport as a winning owner. Yarborough owned a winless team for a short period of time. One was actively involved for a long period, the other not. It was a comparison. Sorry if you missed that.

    Um, what? I'm not sure what "point" you think I'm trying to prove here. There are politics involved with this just like there is anything else. Win and Championship totals will be overlooked at points, just as we saw this year. My subjective, anecdotal analysis of whatever point you think I'm trying to prove is moot. Guys with more wins and more championships were left out for a guy with less wins and zero championships. And why do you think that is?


    You flat out say Harry didn't have a hall of fame career but yet you have no idea what your qualifications for a HoF driver would be. I'm also not aware of a list of "must meet guidelines" posted by NASCAR on what you have to have to be in the hall.

    So how can you rule Harry out when you don't know what your qualifications would be, or if NASCAR is already saying that Harry Gant will never be in? Other than you flat out thinking close to 40 wins in two series isn't enough? And if that is the case, then obviously you've given it some thought.


    The point is: Either NASCAR at some point is going to have to majorly slim down how many people they let in (even with just 5)...or they are going to have to broaden that range. Busch/Truck champions, winning crew chiefs, etc. Which I think will happen. When that time comes, guys who have a lot of wins will be looked at next. Harry will be forgotten at that point as he's basically forgotten now. Why? He left the sport and didn't come back. Fans now have no clue who Harry Gant (and others) are. He's just an easy example to use.


    I just want to get a better idea of where you are coming from on some of your thoughts. I'd love to see what you think makes/doesn't make a HoF candidate, and then what happens when we run out of those people? I apologize if I come off like a jerk, I'd just like to see your thoughts.

    It's like the Baseball HOF...there is only one Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, etc, yet someone has to get in (well, not really, but you see what I'm saying).
     
    #19 Bobby Hamilton, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010
  20. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're fortunate (I'm assuming) to have seen many of these guys. Petty was well past his prime during my early years, and Bobby Allison was getting there. Earnhardt is really the only one that I saw winning races and championships. But I was raised in that old school NASCAR home. My dad had tons of stuff from the old days and I saw tapes, etc of those guys. But not getting to see them live makes it hard for me to base it on "what I saw"

    I have to look at stats, what other drivers say, etc. I'd love to sing the praises of my screen name as a driver. He was a good one. HoF worthy? Unless they go to truck champions at some point I'll have to say heavens no.
     

Share This Page

Loading...