National Council of Churches and World Council of Churches?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by FundamentalBaptist02, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. FundamentalBaptist02

    FundamentalBaptist02
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    Hello everyone. I was reading on the American Baptist's website that they are associated with the National Council of Churches and the World Council of Churches. I have heard a number of negative things about these two ecumenical organizations. What do you think of them?
     
  2. El_Guero

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    necessary evil?
     
  3. Not_hard_to_find

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    And the necessity would be?
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    I am curious as well.
     
  5. Marcia

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    The National Council of Churches has been liberal for a long time! I even recall that from the time before I became a Christian.
     
  6. El_Guero

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    I cannot think of one . . .

     
  7. Gold Dragon

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    I appreciate the NCC and WCC attempts at being obedient to these scriptures, something their critics often have trouble with.

    My baptist church is part of the Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec, which is a member of Canadian Baptist Ministries which is a mamber of the WCC.
     
    #7 Gold Dragon, Sep 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2006
  8. Rex77

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    They are necessary to fulfil Gods word

    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Anytime you see this word, substitute it with the word compromisers, and you have a much clearer picture of what is in play here.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. Gold Dragon

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    Sorry correction. The Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec is a member of the Canadian Council of Churches which is in turn a member of the WCC. The BCOQ is also a member of CBM. But CBM is not a member of the WCC.
     
  11. Soulman

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    The WCC and the NCC are heavily in the throws of apostasy, that is if they ever knew the truth. Ecumenicisim is wrong! All this uniting under the umbrella of Jesus while we drop doctrine is false teaching. God wants us united. But in truth. He wants us unified as His body Dropping walls of division and building bridges over our differences is false teaching.
     
  12. BruceB

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    The Institute on Religion and Democracy (which I know little about aside from reading their website) works to expose the hypocrisy of the NCC. Many well documented articles exist on their website exposing the questionable activities of the NCC. One that was very good is entitled NCC Finds a New Base, which exposes the money trail that funds the NCC, and it certainly isn't Christian. I will admit that I am a longtime foe of the NCC, due to my career as a Army National Guard officer (from 1973-2005); during my entire career the NCC was actively undermining the United States of America in every way they could. I equate them with socialists, they were particularly cozy with Castro and the communists in Nicaragua. If the SBC, which my church is a part of, would ever join the NCC I will be gone to a church in a non-NCC denomination the moment I receive the news. Bruce
    http://www.ird-renew.org/site/pp.asp?c=fvKVLfMVIsG&b=278604
     
  13. Gold Dragon

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    I read the about page of this site and I can identify with their cause. They value the importance of ecumenicalism and religious diversity but feel that the mainline churches have taken a wrong turn in their aims to do so. I'm sure there are many members in the NCC that feel the same way, but they hope to work within the NCC to promote change instead of starting a competing organization. I think that is part of what being a body and community is about. To continue to meet and work out our differences and conflicts despite what appears to be hopelessness of agreement. Many fundamentalists and evangelicals are adamantly opposed to divorce. But when it comes to denominational divorce with the rest of the body of Christ, it is celebrated.

     
    #13 Gold Dragon, Sep 22, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2006
  14. Soulman

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    Quoted by Gold Dragon: They value the importance of ecumenicalism and religious diversity but feel that the mainline churches have taken a wrong turn in their aims to do so. End quote

    HUH??? You actually think for a minute that the NCC and WCC have any good to them at all? Read the bible man! All these organizations exist for is to unite the churches of the world into the one world false religion spoken of in the book of revelation. If you are for it, you have no love for the truth. The NCC and WCC sacrifice truth for unity. In the true unity of the bible, Jesus desire is that we be as one even as He and His Father are one. That my friend involves truth.

    We must worship in SPIRIT and in TRUTH! Anything else is phoney religion. If you believe it you are deceived. What are you doing on a baptist board anyway? Are there baptists that are really so liberal?
     
  15. Gold Dragon

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    I do and I quoted it extensively in this thread.

    You are welcome to that interpretation of ecumenicalism which I am aware of. I do not agree with it from careful interpretation of the scripture.

    While I do think that true unity involves truth, the word truth isn't in the passages about unity that I quoted. Not to say that isn't important but I just keep hearing that from folks as if they are quoting something.

    Regarding a love for the truth, it is my truly passionate love for the truth that caused me to challenge the fundamentalist views of separation to see what the bible really had to say about how we were to separate. And then to look into detail into the differences of the various Christian denominations and see the history behind the formation of ecumenical groups and the ecumenical movement.

    My findings were that it is many fundamentalists separatist groups that denies the truth of scripture and history to protect their small domain of their own theological traditions that cannot stand up to criticism, while it is the more ecumenical groups that truly seek to challenge their traditional understandings with that of opposing views of scripture to arrive at more truly orthodox positions.

    I generalize because this is not always true. There are some fundamentalists willing to have their traditions challenged and some ecumenical groups that close their ears to opposing views. But both of these seem to be the exceptions rather than the norm.


    Most definitely! Amen.

    Call me liberal if you want. I really don't care about liberal, evangelical, fundamentalist labels. I can identify with all three even though for many baptists, the three are irreconcilable. But I am a baptist and have just as much right to be here as you do.
     
    #15 Gold Dragon, Sep 23, 2006
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  16. Gold Dragon

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    Your reference is an awesome passage showing the importance of unity in God's kingdom. Jesus is addressing the Samaritan woman at the well when she brings up her tangent of place of worship differences between Jews and Samaritans. And then he aludes to a time in the future when Jews and Gentiles will worship together and not exclusive separatism.

    Unity or ecumenicalism in God's kingdom despite the many doctrinal differences between Jewish, Samaritan and Gentile Christians! And throughout the NT we see many of the struggles the NT church goes through trying to reconcile those differences. Sometimes with grace to understand diversity and other times by making firm stands against false doctrine.

     
    #16 Gold Dragon, Sep 23, 2006
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  17. Jack Matthews

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    "Do not go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. I Cor. 4:6, NIV

    I think we get too caught up in assumptions related to labels and make sweeping generalizations. Conservative evangelicals have as distorted a view of the more "liberal" side of Christianity, and of ecumenical movements as those among the ecumenicals have of conservative, evangelical Christianity. Both have their presupposed assumptions, which come from their own reasoning that is "beyond what is written," and lead to interpretations and applications that are based on their historical traditions and not on an accurate rendering of the scripture. Are all Baptists like Fred Phelps? Neither are all ecumenicals all like John Shelby Spong.

    I attended a seminary associated with the ecumenical movement, which some here would likely label "liberal." That was even my perspective when I began attending classes. I wasn't expecting to spend much time reading or studying the Bible, but rather, the writings and philosophy of modern theologians. Not so. In fact, the whole objective of every Bible course was to teach students how to interpret the scripture using the original languages and a clear, concise study of the contexts in which they were written, avoiding speculation and sticking strictly with the content of the text itself. There were always many questions from the students regarding this or that perspective or teaching from their denominational background, and the general response to that was that tradition and history have an effect on the practice of the institutional church, but the object is to practice the Christian faith as revealed in the scripture, not through tradition.

    As Baptists, our understanding of "church" is as a local body, not a group of local bodies in a district or under a denominational authority. In many of those "ecumenical" relationships, the decision to join a particular group does not come from the congregations, it comes from a few people at the top. To paint everyone as "evil liberals" in a group is wrong. I can tell you that, from my experience at that divinity school, we developed a long list of where all Christian traditions, conservative, fundamentalist, liberal, go beyond what is written to draw conclusions.
     
  18. Gold Dragon

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    Excellent points that I have no problems with.
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    Ecumenicalism=compromise:thumbs:
     
  20. Soulman

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    AMEN!! It's a love fest equalling nothing more than the compromise of scripture. The scriptures are plain. There is really no argument. WCC and NCC are the works of the devil.:jesus:
     

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