National Geographic

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Dr. Bob, Sep 4, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    September 2003 issue has 30 pages on slavery world wide (including the USA). One of the most startling and disturbing articles I have ever read.

    27,000,000 slaves in the world today. Makes a polemics about the antebellum South look ludicrous.
     
  2. Tanker

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    >>>>>27,000,000 slaves in the world today. Makes a polemics about the antebellum South look ludicrous. <<<<<<

    Except that American slavery was here, not remote, and was present in an allegedly Christian nation. Also the figure of 27 million looks suspect. Where are all those slaves?
     
  3. Pete Richert

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    I bet 27 million is accurate. There is a LOT of slavery in Africa, as well as Asia and South America. There are 6 Billion people on the planet so 27 million is only 0.45% of the populaiton.
     
  4. Pete Richert

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    But anyway I don't understand Dr. Bob's point. You are admitting slavery is wrong today (gleened from you words "startling and disturbing") and use this to show that it wasn't wrong in the US 150 years ago?

    BTW, I am not anti-south, anti-southern people, or even anti-south in the civil war (to which I believe the issue is complicated) but I am anti-"the institution of slavery that took place in the US proceeding the civil war".
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    Pete - I hate slavery. I would never want to own a slave or be a slave. I am sorry if my BIBLICAL position (that slavery is a reality and that slaves are supposed to obey good or bad masters) bothers folks.

    My personal opinion is hatred and abhorrence. If I could justify being an abolitionist from a biblical stance, I would. I would certainly be one today from a political stance.

    And Tank - read the article. Get your head in the real world and realize that 27m is probably a conservative estimate.
     
  6. Tanker

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    Dr. Bob's position as a southern apologist is a curious one in that he is not in the south and from his own account was born and grew up in the North, and not even in a border state at that. He seems to have been influenced by some of those wacko organizations such as the League of the South with their mistaken facts about the Civil War. For example, one of the things that they promote is the false claim that thousands of blacks fought for the South. I could perhaps believe a few hundred, but if anyone wants to claim that thousands did, then the burden of proof is on them. If there were that many, where were the dead buried? It is possible even now to locate thousands of graves of black men who died in the service of the Union.
     
  7. Tanker

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    I have often wondered why Lincoln made such a tremendous effort to force the south back into the union, because letting them go would have been a reasonable alternative. I think there were two reasons. The first is that he felt that he had an obligation to keep the union as he found it, rather than let it be torn apart. The second reason is one to which he hints occasionally and that is he wanted the United States to remain one nation in order for it to have greater influence in world affairs. He saw the U.S. as a powerful influence on world events.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Tank - that is close to what is NOT allowed here. You don't know WHAT whacko organizations have warped my mind. Or maybe it was just historical fact and common sense?

    Remember I'm a reformed baptist and pre-trib and dispensational and a republican and live in Wyoming and MARRIED . . so cut me some slack. I've got a lot of baggage! :eek: :D :eek:
     
  9. Pete Richert

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    I know what the Bible says about slavery. I also know what the Bible says about kidnapping. Africans were kidnapped from their own homes and families and sold as slaves in different countries. Okay, we can agree they should play nice.

    Can we agree it was wrong to kidnap them? . . .
    . . . . . . . . .

    I'm giving lots of time here because no one seems to ever answer this.

    Can we also agree it was wrong to buy them knowing they were kidnapped?
    Do you deny they were kidnapped?
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    Bible doesn't speak directly about HOW a person became a slave, nor buying and selling slaves.

    It does speak very directly and plainly on HOW a slave (believer) is to live, work, treat his master - whether the master is good or evil.

    Remember, I think slavery is wrong. Period. But that is not the underlying biblical issue. That issue is how the slave is to live.

    IF God is in 100% control, then we must obey His Word and allow HIM to work out our life circumstances. Where is abolition, rebelling, running away, etc, commanded for the slave?

    Chapter and verse is the bottom line.
     
  11. Pete Richert

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    That is fair. But we keep only dealing with the issues of how a slave should act. I want to deal with the issue of how a person (believer) should act after buying (or hopefully not buying) a slave that he knows has been kidnapped and enslaved agaist his will. I do not think the Bible is silent on this. If kidnapping is wrong, so is buying and holding agaist their will someone you know is kidnapped, or is that much to assume.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    I would assume slaveholders pre 1800 gave tacit approval to "kidnapping" (don't ask, don't tell) of blacks in Africa to sell other blacks as slaves for the islands and the Americas.

    After the slave TRADE was abolished, for 50 years prior to the War, kidnapping was a moot issue. Slaves were all born (and as Jimmy the Greek so aptly stated) and "bred" right here within our various sovereign states. No slaves were brought here from Africa or the Caribbean.

    Hence I think that "attack" on slavery (which has no defence; it is deplorable) was not even considered in 1800-1860.
     
  13. Pete Richert

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    Pastor Bob, what are you doing up so late. Only us young bucks should be dealing at this hour.

    Okay. I might hope that if someone felt owning a kidnapped man was wrong, then owning his child or grandchild would be wrong too. And I would hope ALL believers would think owning a kidnapped man was wrong. But anyway, this will be my last on slavery.
     
  14. Karen

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    Well, we're making some progress here! :D
    In some earlier threads this was not so clear, including the one in which you said that you would never have preached against slavery.

    Karen
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    Karen - that's an intrinsic problem when we debate such issues in bits and pieces and snippets. We seldom get across exactly what we want to say or mean.

    And fyi, if I were living in 1850 Virginia, I would NOT preach against it. I am a 100% expository preacher and there is no (none, nothing, zilch, nada) passage that I could even twist to make into abolitionist fodder.

    I would preach on treatment of slaves, and being a good master, both subjects dealt with in the Bible.

    That's the point I was making. No, count me out of the pro-slavery group!! :cool:
     
  16. Pete Richert

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    Amen to that!!!
     

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