Natural man

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Jul 14, 2006.

  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    1 Corinthians 2: 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    The natural man, as in the flesh cannot receive the things of God it is bound to death.

    God through the words of Jesus can go past this flesh and go right to the inner man can bring salvation to the soul.

    God is not saving the natural man, nor does God need to save His Spirit, because why would God have to save Himself. He is saving our soul

    Your soul is given a choice to follow the flesh that leads to death, or to follow the Spirit that leads to life.

    Matthew 10:28
    Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

    John 6:63
    The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

    Romans 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    1 Peter 1:9
    for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
     
  2. webdog

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    The "natural man" is the sin nature we were born with. The greek word translated to natural man actually means an animal or primitive man. This describes all men prior to salvation.
     
  3. J.D.

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    Psalm109, are you edging toward dualism? (spirit good, flesh bad) Careful.
     
  4. psalms109:31

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    catagory

    I'm in no catagory. I love the scripture and see that it all points to Jesus for salvation. I boast only in the cross.

    Romans 7:21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

    Webdog, you are right, but Jesus has condemned this sinful nature in the flesh.

    Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Now the Spirit is at the door asking us to open it and let Him in.

    Revelation 3:20
    Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
     
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    You are correct, J.D., this sounds like dualism.

    A human being is complete; body and spirit. That is why the human body of Jesus was resurrected. That is why we will have resurrected bodies in heaven.

    peace to you:praise:
     
  6. psalms109:31

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    soul

    We are three sprit(life), soul inner man, and flesh a shell.

    This body will be destroyed and in a blink of an eye we will be given a spiritual body without corruption.

    This flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God, so it must be changed into a spiritual body.
     
  7. webdog

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    Our current bodies that die will be resurrected and renewed, fit for Heaven.
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    Romans, chapter 8
    "21": Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (please notice the word ALSO for it means the body shall be delivered as the soul was. It is one reason I believe you are not in today and out tomorrow for if that which is born of God cannot sin, then how could it fall.)

    "22": For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

    "23": And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    "24": For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

    "25": But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

    1 John, chapter 3

    "9": Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1 Corinthians, chapter 15

    "40": There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

    2 Corinthians, chapter 12

    "9": And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

    The inwardly man has already been born again and cannot sin and cannot die.
    The outwardly man is still a fleshly man that can sin but is not just turned loose to do the old things but is kept by the Grace of God and will receive its change in the resurrection.
    Both men have eternal life and are one but the soul has already put on Christ and the flesh must wait until the Lord comes back again and then will this corruptile put on incorruptle and this mortal put on immortality and then will come to pass the saying "oh death where is thy sting and oh grave where is thy victory."

    It is not dualism but with God there is no time.
     
    #8 Brother Bob, Jul 15, 2006
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  9. psalms109:31

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    Flesh

    Genesis 3:19
    By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."

    What came from this world will return to this world.

    This fleshly corrupted bodies will be destroyed, because this body is nothing but evil, it is where our sin has been condemned.

    We will be given new bodies, spiritial bodies.

    Just like there is a natural body, there is a spiritual body.

    that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

    Our bodies are dying with the earth, we will be raised in the spiritual body in the blink of an eye.

    My body is meaningless and fear no one that can destroy this body, because it is going to be destroyed.

    I fear the one that can destroy both body and soul in hell.

    God is not out to save my flesh, but my soul.

    Do you believe our bodies being detroyed and given a new is the same as being renewed?
     
    #9 psalms109:31, Jul 15, 2006
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  10. Brother Bob

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    One thing to remember it is the same "it" that shall be changed. "it shall be sown a corruptle and raised incorruptle, "it" shall be sown in dishonor but raised in Glory, "it" shall be sown in weakness but raised in power.
    Also, Job said; tho the skins worms devour this body of mine yet in my flesh shall I see God.
    Also, ever bone shall come to its bone.
    Also this mortal must put on immortality, this corruptle put on incorruptions.
    It will be the same "it" but changed to a Heavenly body.
    If it was not the same "it" then it would not be a resurrection but it would be a creation. peace
     
  11. psalms109:31

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    job

    Job 19:26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
    yet [Or And after I awake, / though this bod has been destroyed, / then] in [Or / apart from] my flesh I will see God;

    His body was destroyed. If it has been destroyed then he is given a new one. I praise God for the index He put in the bible.

    This coruptible one has been destroyed, so we are raised in another that in not coruptible.

    What is your defination of destroyed?

    To me it means gone, no more. If it is gone and no more then we are given a new one. This all happens in a blink of an eye
     
    #11 psalms109:31, Jul 15, 2006
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  12. Brother Bob

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    Your definition would not be a resurrection but a creation.
    Resurrection is for the same lump of clay to get up but changed to a Spiritual body.

    Really the Scriptures plainly tell us it is the same body but changed.

    Romans, chapter 8

    "23": And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    1 Corinthians, chapter 15
    "40": There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

    "41": There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

    "42": So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    "43": It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

    "44": It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    "45": And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    "46": Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    "47": The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    "48": As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    "49": And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    I have no problem with someone saying it is a "new" body but it is the same one made over new.

    Destroyed is to return to the dust from which it came.

    If God can create man then He surely can take the same dust and make it over new.

    There will not be another creation, period!!!! peace

    Did Jesus's body get up or another one?
     
    #12 Brother Bob, Jul 15, 2006
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  13. Rex77

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    Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Not only the saved will have their old bodies changed, but the lost also,
    note where the bodies come from out of the grave where the were put.
     
  14. psalms109:31

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    destruction

    I hope it is not the same one, but it is a spiritual body.

    We might not agree on how it happens, but we agree on the out come.

    This body going to the fire and the new one will arise.

    The body is destroyed to bring in the new.

    Just like the temple, and the old covanant.

    Jesus has the same body as He lived, because it never knew sin and we will see the scars, this body of ours Jesus has condemned the sin within the flesh and it will be destroyed and we will be risen with the new Spiritual body.

    Our flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God. So what was destroyed we will be risen with the new spiritual body.

    Just as thier is a natural body, there is a spiritual. The natural body will be destroyed.

    They are not the same body, but different.

    Light and darkness is not the same, so the natural body and the spiritual body is not. These two cannot share , but one will destroy the other.
     
    #14 psalms109:31, Jul 16, 2006
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  15. Brother Bob

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    Children of God are not going to the fire. I don't know what you mean here?:confused: :confused:

    The nature part destroyed but same lump of clay changed from a natural to a Spiritual
     
    #15 Brother Bob, Jul 16, 2006
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  16. Marcia

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    Your last statement that it is not our same body that will be raised but a different one is directly against God's word. Go back and read some of the scripture that was posted here.

    The resurrection of Jesus was a model of what will happen to us, and he was raised in the same body. Our bodies will be transformed, because the mortal body we have now cannot inherit immortality, so God will transform our bodies into immortal ones. They will be changed bodies, but they will be from the same bodies.

    A new body in the sense of it being a different body would not be a resurrected or transformed body, as scripture teaches.
     
  17. psalms109:31

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    scripture

    I have read the scriptures.

    It shows there is a natural body and a spiritual body. They are going to be changed.

    The natural body is destroyed, and we will be given a new body, a spiritual one

    Destroyed that is what the scripture teaches

    Changed in as we change our cloths

    Jesus does not have a body like ours, His body never knew sin. He is the only one that was resurected in the same body. We will be change in a blink of an eye

    We will be baptized by the fire, the purifying fire. The earth will be purified by the fire.

    I do not see how you all are having a problem with this.

    As a child i thought i was going to get wings and become an angel, but i grew up.

    We all know that this is not the body we will have but a spiritual one. I praise God that we a agree upon that.

    To say we have the same body is going against scripture.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    If it were going against Scripture I would not say it. I want you to look at the "it" and that is our body.


    1 Corinthians, chapter 15

    "42": So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    "43": It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

    "44": It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    The greatest thing to remember to be a "resurrection" it has to be your body but changed from a terrestrial body to a celestial body.

    Romans, chapter 8

    "11": But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Please read again for I think you want to know the truth. There are many Scriptures such as Job saying "yet in my flesh shall I see God" or "hide me away in my grave and appoint me a time and remember me.

    When Jesus arose from the Grave there were others that arose also.

    KJMatt.27
    51": And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

    "52": And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

    "53": And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    The most important thing is that it would not be a resurrection if we received a different body. It is the same body changed from a natural to a Spiritual, one without death or tears and one prepared to go to Heaven.

    Also you said you believed as a kid you would have wings well maybe not wings but you will take a Heavenly flight to meet the Lord in the air.

    Matthew, chapter 24

    "20": But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
     
    #18 Brother Bob, Jul 17, 2006
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  19. psalms109:31

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    scripture

    Job scripture shows that his flesh was destroyed. That in my flesh can also be translated apart from my flesh i will see God.

    If it is destroyed then it is apart from my flesh, and if it is in that it is in the new body.

    These two bodies are not the same one is a natural body and the other is a spiritual body.

    I do not see how you can say it is the same body. They can't be

    We agree with one being a natural, and one is a spiritual, then we agree with each other.

    It sown natural, then it being raised spiritual is saying they are not the same.

    Changed to one to the other in a blink of an eye.

    take off the old and put on the new
     
    #19 psalms109:31, Jul 17, 2006
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  20. Brother Bob

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    You fail to recognize the Power of God. We will perish, these bodies will return to dust and that is why the Scriptures says that a man will say: How are the dead raised and with what body do they come? Paul wrote and said "thou fool, how can that be quicken (made alive) except it first die". Even though after time you go there and you will find no body for it will have returned to dust, or maybe it was buried in the sea, or maybe the earth moving equipment had turned over our graves and our dust is blowing in the wind. God is all powerful and He will send His angels to the four corners of the earth and to the four winds to gather in His children. All your dust will come together again in the resurrection regardless where it is. Even if you have yourself cremetated you still will come together and as Jesus Himself said:

    John, chapter 5
    "28": Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    "29": And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation
    What? Is in the graves?

    Just think about it for a while. It is no great thing for God to take the same dust and make it over new. Also, it is those in the graves that shall come forth and that is our bodies.

    I find no fault by you saying it will be a new body as long as you say it will be the same it that is in the grave but made over new. To say otherwise then you would not believe in a "resurrection".
     
    #20 Brother Bob, Jul 17, 2006
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