Need help trying to figure out Lutherans!!

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Trish4Him, Feb 27, 2002.

  1. Trish4Him

    Trish4Him
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    I have moved from NC to the midwest three years ago. I was an Fundamental Independent Baptist when in NC. I have a good friend here who is Lutheran. There is no Baptist church near me. I had been considering attending the Lutheran church but found out they are doing a study on human sexuality and may allow homosexuals to be be pastors and allow homosexual marriages. This particular church may not but the Evangelical Lutheran Head Group whatever their name is, is considering this. I tried to express to one of the representatives of this church my views about salvation and about homosexuality to one of the correspondents for this church league. She told me that "Homosexual" is what God made you and that the sin is in the act of sex between men and men and women and women. I explained to her that God did not make homosexuals that it was a deception of satan. That God created man and then made woman for him. Not that He created man and made a man for him. It makes me sad that this church is so confused. From what I have been able to gather, they think that salvation is a free gift and we don't have to do anything to get it.........by that I mean not repent and ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus as our Savior. They put a great deal of emphysis on baptism and baptise babies as well. I want to talk to my friend about it but don't know how to even begin to approach it without offending him. Any help anyone can give would be appreciated. :(
     
  2. Vicki

    Vicki
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    My husband was raised Catholic before becoming Baptist. He mentioned to me once that the Lutheran Church broke away from the Catholic Church and has some similarities. Someone else on the BB should be able to give you more details and verify what I posted.

    God bless,
    Vicki
     
  3. Vicki

    Vicki
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  4. Harald

    Harald
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    Any system of religion that teaches man has to fulfill one or more conditions for eternal life and salvation is anti-Christ. It is a humanistic creature centered religion and abomination unto Almighty God. Lutheranism is such a system. It teaches (among other things)baptism as a condition for regeneration and salvation. Also systems which subtly teach repentance and faith as conditions for the new birth and salvation are of that wicked one, Satan. Lutheranism is a daughter of Rome, and likewise a synagogue of the Adversary (Rev.2:9). If you have time I would advise to read the following short article on the freeness of God's grace, by Baptist Gery Schmidt. It is solidly scriptural and even touches upon infant sprinkling.
    http:[email protected]/Heartland/Lake/8890/grace/freeness.html

    Harald
     
  5. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    Hello!

    I am a former Lutheran and starkly disagree that Lutheranism is "the anti-Christ". Being raised Lutheran and having studied the doctrine for over three years consistently I think I have a somewhat good handle on their beliefs. No, they do not believe they take part in their salvation.

    I would be happy to share with you what I can, let me know what you would like clarification on. But I can only tell you so much. I'm not passionate about Lutheranism, I'm not going to defend it. If you really want some good people to talk to about Lutheranism, talk to a Lutheran. They have the best idea of what they believe ;)

    Sir ed on the other religion forum would be a great person, or Pastor Krichner on www.lutheransonline.com message board.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  6. Maverick

    Maverick
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    My wife was raised a Lutheran and may have long left what Luther taught about in anything.
    She felt that because she was baptized as a baby she was cool. I once asked a Lutheran lady if she held to "only by faith" and "only by Scripture" as Luther taught and she replied, "Martin Luther King?"

    Many Lutheran groups are returning to Catholicism. At a funeral of one of my wife's family, I would have thought that I was at a Catholic funeral had I not known better. When I asked the man perfroming the service about it, he told me that they were heading back to Rome. Hello, Rev 17!

    You may consider starting a Bible study in your home. God may have called you there to start a Baptist Church. You will either spend your time in arguing or depart from the faith if you just attend any church because there is not a good one there.

    Even the more Conservative Lutheran groups hold to infant baptism and transubtantiation. Luther and the boys did not Reform enough when they came out of Catholicism, which is why many of those denominations are finding it so easy to go back since not all the bridges were burned.

    May God grant you great wisdom.
     
  7. suzanne

    suzanne
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    Hi Trish,
    We moved to the midwest seven years ago and in our area it became quickly apparent that you couldn't tell what the church was like by the name outside.
    You may have to seek out a congregation that shares your views. Ask the pastors for a statement of faith and don't be shy about asking them specific questions regarding issues you see as important. In order to get a good feel for the church congregation you may have to visit several times.
    Prayfully consider where you visit.

    May God bless your journey!

    suzanne
     
  8. KeeperOfMyHome

    KeeperOfMyHome
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    Um, Harald, this is a confusing statement to me. Can you please explain further what you mean by it? If one is not justified by faith (Romans 5:1), then does the Bible lie? I'm not really clear on what you mean by your statement.

    Thanks,

    Julia
     
  9. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    Hi Suzanne! Welcome to the Baptist Board. I notice that you list your religion as "Jesus". I believe that you are refering to the relationship you have with our Savior [​IMG] I like it when people are creative with that field. I do have a question though- are you baptistic in doctrinal beliefs?

    Thank you for the clarification.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  10. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    I don't know where the poster named "Godmetal" is right now, but he is very well versed in the Lutheran ways. So if you are out there....HELP!!!!
     
  11. suzanne

    suzanne
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    Hi Adam,
    Thanks for the welcome.
    Not sure what you mean by "baptistic". I believe that a Christian should be baptized. [​IMG]
    I accepted Jesus as my Savior and Lord about 26 years ago and during that time have been a part of several types of churches. Foursquare, non-denominational, Church of God and presently fellowshipping through Bible studies and a home church group.

    There is a church being planted nearby (coming from a congregation that's an hour away) and they seem to be very conservative and bible based. So far the information I've uncovered in talking to people and from reading this board leads me to think I'm pretty comfortable with "baptistic" doctrines.

    Blessings,

    suzanne [​IMG]
     
  12. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    Mr. Curtis- remember Godmetal can't post on this forum, perhaps he could PM T4H if this person is still here.

    Suzanne,

    Thank you for sharing!

    UNP
    Adam
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Suzanne,

    Neither do I and I am a Baptist. :D

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    Suzanne,

    Neither do I and I am a Baptist. :D

    Joseph Botwinick
    </font>[/QUOTE]Baptistic: "Baptist-like"
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Suzanne,

    Neither do I and I am a Baptist. :D

    Joseph Botwinick
    </font>[/QUOTE]Baptistic: "Baptist-like"
    </font>[/QUOTE]Adam,

    Could you define that a bit more specifically for us. I kinda have a sneaking suspicion that if one was to ask what a Baptist was like, they could probably get many different answers. :D

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    Holds to the Baptist distinctives. That help? [​IMG]
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    What are those? :D

    Priesthood of all believers?

    KJVO?

    Male only ministry?

    Calvinism?

    Separation of Church and State?

    Creedalism?

    Would you please be a bit more specific?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    Lutherans do NOT believe in "transubtantiation". They do however believe in the actual presense of the Lord Jesus in the bread (whatever that means???) since Jesus said "This IS my body". It is a suddle point and difficult to argue since the language is rather ambigious. And this isn't new, Martin Luther himself used to debate Zwinglie (sp?) on this very note, the one thing they really couldn't agree over.

    There are many strong believing Lutherans. However, they are a little hazing on the baptism thing. If pressed, they will admit that baptism is NOT required for salvation (theif on the cross anyone) but then they say some kind of mumbled but . .. and I get confused from there. They do NOT believe that just because you were baptized as a child you will go to heaven.

    Martin Luther was an amazing man who really TRUSTED and BELIVED in Jesus Christ despite enormous persecution (hiding in a castle so he wouldn't get killed!). If you have a doubts about the person himself I suggest you read his OWN writings and not what someone else says about him. I thank God constantly for the influence Martin Luther and many other reformers had in my life, Landmark Baptist or not. In many ways they were a product of their times and coming out of a dead religion and God used them just as he found them.

    That said, I am always a little suspecious about the Luthern Church. Just as there are probably many "Baptists" who go to church but have not Trusted in Jesus Christ, I feel that a large percentage of "Lutherans" fit this bill. I pray though for these my brothers that they will look through all the robes and routine and see the real Jesus.
     
  19. Brother Adam

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    Lutherans believe that Christ is present "in, on, and under" the elements in communion. Actual presence is very hard to explain, and is more of an experience than something that can be clearly understood in words. Being a Lutheran for over 10 years, I know exactly what "actual presence" means, but only from my experience of communion in the church.

    Lutherans do NOT believe in OSAS (once saved always saved). This is not a teaching. They believe you can fall away from Christ and lose eternal life. Baptism, to the Lutheran, is the beginning of your relationship with Christ, and you are safe in his arms until a person chooses to sever their relationship with him.

    Yes, Martin Luther was under a great deal of pressure from the authority of the RCC. To them, he was teaching a damnable doctrine and they would not have it. He was however not a coward. While he was no fool and did not deliberately put himself in harms way, he did stand up to the RCC in something of a "Give me Liberty or Give me death" sort of way. And, oh boy did he ever have a mouth on him. He had no problem insulting those who held what he believed was faulty doctrine (especially those who denied infant baptism- see the Large Catachism, Part IV).

    Finally, I do not believe that on the whole the majority of Lutherans are lost. I believe the majority of Lutherans are saved, but do not look through the same lenses that Baptist do. In other words you will not here an invitation (Come forward and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior) at a Lutheran church. You will however hear the gospel presented every week. The reason their is a seemingly lack of focus on "saving" people is because they believe that your salvation starts with your infant baptism. That baptism is one of the means of grace through which faith is delivered (faith is the saving component, baptism is the means. This being much like the Baptist church in which faith is the saving component and preaching/invitation is the means).

    UNP
    Adam
     
  20. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Moving this to the General Discussions Forum.
     

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