Need some advice and prayers

Is that what I said? Be careful of lashing out with such rhetorical responses in regards to a call not to preach darkness as it tends to directly expose
you by what you object to.

Not interested in your accusations that my knowing God’s love and truth in such a matter is in question through your claiming my opinion of His justice and judgment is based on my emotionalism and feelings that God is not fair. I understand His judgment to be true and thereby perfectly fair. What you don’t understand is that His judgment is real and in truth (Deut 32:4) and is based on our ability to respond in truth; that takes “real” faith from “real” free will/volition. I’m sorry that you are so bent on trying to proclaim we have no such ability but I can’t help you with that, faith must come from your own heart through love of the truth in that light which has been revealed to all through the Holy Spirit. Maybe try seeking God in truth as you are commanded when seeing that light instead of resting on what you perceive as an intellectual truth through a theological system that declares you do not have to respond in faith out of your own heart because this has been determined upon you as being one of the specially pre-selected few. There is a real condition of faith, Jesusfan, don’t let the devils convince you that such a thing could only be forced upon you. God’s judgment is very fair, real and based on true faith; slow down and examine “yourself” whether “you” truly be in the faith:

(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

How badly do you see humanity being affected by the fall of adam then?

and i never have questioned if Non cals are saved, nor if they can hold to other theologies then me...

ALl that I have ever said is that that in area of Sotierology ALONE for ME, cal sytsem of viewing it superior to other models used here on BB!

 

I normally wouldn't take the time to respond to this post, but because I have read it a couple times in other threads (or something most similar), I consider it providential and worth the response.

You said:

Perhaps you are mixing the education of the believer with the salvation of the believer. Paul is discussing what the results of the believer being educated and schooled. He is NOT discussing salvation.

And this is true from the foundations of the world through the ages and on through eternity - for even in eternity there is no sun or moon, but Christ that gives all light.

You have no right to dispute the Scriptures. It is the Scriptures that clearly state that the natural man, unsaved man, unbeliever,... are blind, intellectually darkened, and cannot even be aware much less receive the things of God.

As has been shown, ALL, always means ALL!

Jesus did not lie. However, you want to place all in a state of capable of self determination to receive or reject Christ. That isn't the case. What Jesus said is accurate. ALL, even the most vile wicked person that has ever lived, will be drawn to Christ!

BUT the word "draw" also mean to be drug; sort of like a fish on a fish hook. So, YES all will be "drawn" for ALL will bow and acknowledge Jesus as Lord. But not ALL will be "drawn" to Christ the same way.

These verses are taken out of context and have little to do with your supporting your view of salvation and "all" being as you would determine.

The problem here is that you want to place the natural man as "willing." But that isn't supported by the Scriptures.

"NO MAN SEEKS GOD." is as valid a scripture today as it was thousands of years ago.

"Whosoever will" means one who delights, or is inclined, or determined. In this case it is used as one already saved. Only the saved can come to the water of life and drink. You neglected to consider the state of the setting of the place of that water. Please do not forget that, unlike the modern and in the past, the the bride and the spirit will not prevent anyone from coming but rejoice in that no matter the case there are no racial, physical, station, or gender conditions for fellowship and that will prevent any believer from that river. BUT NEVER is this river offered to the unsaved! Read the context - the verse or two before state clearly that THIS IS TO THE CHURCH!!!!

The UNSAVED won't ever even get to see this beautiful sight!

Again, unsupported rant.

God's genuine loving promise to all his creatures????????

the snake, the whale, the snail, the amoeba...

Is this actually what you hold to be scriptural?

The world is under condemnation. It and all the heavens will pass in a terrible heat.

Let's review:

No one is saying that Christ does not bring light to the darkened world. But, so do believers - "Ye, are the light of the world..."

No one is saying that Christ doesn't draw - but that is the point - HE does the drawing - NOT man determination.

No one is saying that education of the believer is unimportant - not when Paul says that we are to filter everything spoken in the assembly through the Scriptures, and as John said, to try the spirits to see if they be of God.

No one is saying that witnessing and testimony of Christ isn't good - not when the Scriptures clearly state the opposite.

BUT, what you lend as truth about what the Scriptures state has clearly been shown inaccurate. Therefore, that inaccuracy leads one to a false conclusion, which you have reached.




Should you consider any part of what I posted to you as false, show me by scriptures where I am mistaken, just as I have taken the time to refute your post.

 

Oh, I think you are totally full of mud in your purely rhetorical old hat responses that don't use one scripture in your so called "refute" of the scriptures I already posted. :laugh:

I'm busy now, but I might try to get back to some of your more obvious mistakes such as declaring inability to seek God later. Although, shouldn't be highjacking this tread with all that; why don't you open another tread, I'd be glad to post you a few scriptures to the contrary which show God commands us to seek Him and how that command is not just His idea pulling our pre-determined legs.

 

Agenda? Truth, discussion. I've never heard nor read the John Calvin doctrine before I came here. I have heard general statements before not realizing they were John Calvins words, but now can connect those statements as John Calvin's. Yes, after carefully reading about the man John Calvin, his doctrine and his followers defense of it, I have come to a conclusion, quick or not does not matter to me. I take doctrine seriously and when I know something to be false I do treat it as a joke a times. Maybe I should not look at false doctrine as a joke as it hurts people.

 

Or maybe you can get past the label and the man.

Perhaps you might look at the specifics of the doctrine and scriptural references in support of the view?

Refute the view with Scriptures.

You can join the thread I just started for Benjamin to post Scriptures in opposition or defense of the views.

 

Or maybe you can get past the label and the man.

I have to look at the fruits of what this man John Calvin did and wrote, and it's reaction and effect on the Body of Christ, and compare what his effect is in light of scripture.


Perhaps you might look at the specifics of the doctrine and scriptural references in support of the view?

I did that carefully for myself. On the surface Calvinism looked to be well thought out, logical. It took me a bit to look over the Westminster Confession, looking at each scripture it gave in support.

Refute the view with Scriptures.

I also did this carefully and came up with even more scripture.

 

Sounds to me like you found yourself a theological system but can’t explain or (force) fit the scriptures to agree with that system from within your own reasoning so you have been turning to the philosophies of men who are more experienced at force fitting the scriptures and hoping to use their reasoning to box things in for you? Have you ever thought that your excitement with all this intellectualism of being able to have in-depth knowledge of a theological system that you have recently been caught up in, like so many others that need to be caged up for a while because of their excitement of being intellectual about such things, might be outweighing the better principle of letting your theology fit the scriptures rather than making the scriptures fit your theology???

 

Friend, I have been where you are, and I went through the same exact struggles you are now going through. I was taken back by these things, yet the Scriptures continued to reveal these truths to me as well, and at first against my will, yet truth won the day, and it will for you and yours as well. Simply obey Psalm 62:8.

I will pray for you. God bless.

 

AD and MRS
Keep in mind when Jesus or the apostles gave this teaching it was spoken about with thankful and joyful praise to God. It was spoken openly and prominently as it was to be a great comfort to the saints.

Some who do not yet understand this blessing speak against what they do not know.

 

When I read Paul and look at his life I see his epistle's and his life doesn't teach that some can't come. It is telling us the state of man we need to reach them mainly through our life.

I believe God loved the world that he sent His Son and in Election and in the end there will be an amount saved that can't be counted. I do not try to reconcile them but see both as truth. Few=undisclosed amount saved

In the end in our family what is important unity and no discord, some like to force feed people the way they see the scripture to people who are not wanted it. It is like given an infant a steak and say eat. What is important is that we draw near to God through Jesus Christ and listen and learn from Him and some times because we are all different people we may never see eye to eye and reach to the same point of our own maturity. Man and a women become one flesh even if part of who we are is weaker. It is amazing to me how these truths end up together in one body unfortunately cutting out the part we don't like or accept isn't the best answer.

To me what matters is that we should not let the truth God is leading us to through His word bring us to stop believing in Him and turn away from Him. We will have trials and tribulations in life and relationships but when we listen and learn through them and be thankful for it, it builds perseverance.

Hebrews 3:
12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

James 1

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:

Greetings.
Trials and Temptations
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[The Greek word for brothers and sisters (adelphoi) refers here to believers, both men and women, as part of God’s family; also in verses 16 and 19; and in 2:1, 5, 14; 3:10, 12; 4:11; 5:7, 9, 10, 12, 19.] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.


There is a secure place that gives me no doubt where I will end up by trusting in Jesus and what He has done not in me and what I have done and my own understanding.

I want you to know my prayer always is for all of us is to be one in unity even with all our differences in Jesus Christ.

 

Brother as far as advice is concerned, the Bible says 1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:--and in many other places, we are taught that the Gospel is one of peace and love --in the hearts of true born again believers, there is no room for anger or bitterness towards another brother or sister....yes we may disagree on some points, but love, Christs love, is still our standard--in the home this is MOST IMPERATIVE! You and your wife are to be examples for the children, so make sure you both get on the same page in this way--we won't argue in front of the children--in fact, don't argue at all, just lovingly discuss Scriptures and pray over them....Most of us on here who are Calvinistic started the same way you did, and were where your wife is now--adamantly opposed to the DoG's.....but, in my opinion, anyone who truly studies the Bible and seeks truth cannot help but become Calvinistic.....My turning point was one day reading in the Gospel of John about the resurrection of Lazarus as I have and heard it many times since I was a kid, and reading where after Jesus raised him from the dead, some of the Jews believed, others went to tell the Pharisees what He'd done and they wanted to kill Him.....This is just a quick little illustration, but think about it....He raises a man from the dead--some believe on Him, some want to kill Him.....why wouldn't they ALL want to worship Him, accept Him, as Messiah?? Anyhow this was the straw that turned me towards the DoG's.....but when talking with your wife, and discussing salvation, you can still believe in "free will", because that's all we know......I truly believe "whosoever will may come" as the song says [paraphrase John 3.16]....But understand not everyone will, and I and all who are Calvinistic just trust that God Himself knows that whosoever will WILL come.....God bless