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Need Some Help Re: Campbellite Teaching

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Bro. Jeff, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. Russ Kelly

    Russ Kelly New Member

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    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    This is the Cambelites favorite verse. They insist that it cana only mean "Repent and be baptized FOR (the purpose of) the remission of sins."

    1. It could also mean "Repent and be baptized BECAUSE of the remissiion of sins." Comnpare the statement "Be convicted and be incarcerate3d FOR murder." Just as MURDER occured before the incarceratoron, even so REMISSION can occur before baptism.

    2. Another suggestion is to TRANSLATE "be baptized" into "be washed" rather than merely translilterating it. John the Baptist said that Jesus would baptize (or wash) with the Holy Spirit, not with water. Baptists believe that this occurs at the moment one accepts Christ.

    3.
     
  2. Russ Kelly

    Russ Kelly New Member

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    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    This is the Cambelites favorite verse. They insist that it cana only mean "Repent and be baptized FOR (the purpose of) the remission of sins."

    1. It could also mean "Repent and be baptized BECAUSE of the remissiion of sins." Comnpare the statement "Be convicted and be incarcerate3d FOR murder." Just as MURDER occured before the incarceratoron, even so REMISSION can occur before baptism.

    2. Another suggestion is to TRANSLATE "be baptized" into "be washed" rather than merely translilterating it. John the Baptist said that Jesus would baptize (or wash) with the Holy Spirit, not with water. Baptists believe that this occurs at the moment one accepts Christ.

    3. Ala of the texts inActs that mentiion baptism demonstrate that faith came first. If we are saved by faith alone, then baptism cannot be a requirement.

    4. The thief on the cross was saved by faith alone and Jesus' baptism was imputed to him for righteousness (Mt 3:15). It is Christ's baptism FOR the believer that is essential.
     
  3. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Let’s not mess around here. The interpretation of this verse is dependent upon the
    Greek text, especially the Greek preposition Εις for which we have no equivalent in English. For those who are familiar with this Greek preposition I would like to share some of the comments on Acts 2:38 by Richard Lenski from his The Interpretation of The Acts of the Apostles, an 1134 page work which is one of the 12 volumes in his The Interpretation of The New Testament. (The late Richard Lenski was an evangelical Lutheran. The capital letter “R”, as in R. 592, is an abbreviation for Robertson, and the number following is the page number in Robertson’s Greek grammar where the issue is being discussed. The late Robertson was a Baptist).

    "Everyone of you" makes repentance and baptism personal in the highest degree. Salvation deals with each individual. Note the universality: "everyone," no matter what his condition or position may be. One door is open to all, one only. Baptism is pure gospel that conveys grace and salvation from God through Christ; it dare not be changed into a legal or legalistic requirement that is akin to the ceremonial requirement of Moses such as circumcision. God does something for us in baptism, we do nothing for him. Our acceptance of baptism is only acceptance of God's gift.

    This is emphasized strongly in the addition: "for or unto remission of your sins." It amounts to nothing more than a formal grammatical difference whether Εις is again regarded as denoting sphere (equal to εν), R. 592, or, as is commonly supposed, as indicating aim and purpose, R. 592, or better still as denoting effect. Sphere would mean that baptism is inside the same circle as remission; he who steps into this circle has both. Aim and purpose would mean that baptism intends to give remission; in him, then, who receives baptism aright this intention, aim, and purpose would be attained. The same is true regarding the idea of effect in Εις. This preposition connects remission so closely with baptism that nobody has as yet been able to separate the two. It is this gift of remission that makes baptism a true sacrament; otherwise it would be only a sign or a symbol that conveys nothing real. In order to make baptism such a symbol, we are told that Peter's phrase means only that baptism pictures remission, a remission we may obtain by some other means at some later day.
    But this alters the force of Peter's words. Can one persuade himself that Peter told these sinners who were stricken with their terrible guilt to accept a baptism that pointed to some future remission? Had he no remission to offer them now? And when and how could they get that remission, absolutely the one thing they must have? And how can Ananias in 22:16 say, "Be baptized and wash away thy sins!" as though the water of baptism washed them away by its connection with the Name?
     
  4. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

    Baptism without faith in Christ is a waste of water. Even the Church of Christ agrees about this. [​IMG]

    :confused:

    [ September 10, 2004, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: Craigbythesea ]
     
  5. Bob Colgan

    Bob Colgan New Member

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    No, I do not.

    No, I am not. I do not teach against that interpretation of the Scriptures. I believe what I believe is the correct view of the Scriptures, but I do not teach or argue that the historical view is a wrong view. I am a human being and subject or error, and the other side has a very strong argument.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Craighbythesea,
    If the reason you don't argue is because you are a human being. Then you should never argue with any religion. Thank God someone had enof guts to come to me in love and told me that what I believed in was wrong and would dame me to hell.
    Your response is a typical spinless liberal response. To many people in the church don't want to offend someone. So they don't say anything and people die and go to Hell, but hey at least they weren't offended. :(


    Bob C
     
  6. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
     
  7. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Man there is no arrogance in the last tree posts by Craig. :rolleyes:

    Bro Tony
     
  8. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    A humble man: One who still plays with paper dolls. :D
     
  9. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    One, two, “tree,” “for”—make that now four posts!
     
  10. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Moral of the story: when all the data supports your opponent, don’t try attacking the data, but rather attack your opponent. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  11. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    A lesson you have learned well as you have accused others of arrogance from the beginning of the thread rather than deal with the issue. Your pride does not allow you to have a decent conversation with others. That being the case there will be no further attempt at one.

    Bro Tony
     
  12. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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  13. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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  14. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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