need verses about talking in tongues is not biblical in this generation

sorry I should have including all the pages that was only the first page.

http://www.angelfire.com/trek/adventurebooks/tongues.html

If you click on the link ABOVE it will have my 8 page study in very easy to understand form. This is all you would need to prove your point. I let scripture speak for itself, not alot of mumbo jumbo.

WHY WAS THE GIFT OF TONGUES GIVEN AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM ?

WHAT WAS THE GIFT OF TONGUES ?

WHAT WAS THE PROPER USE OF TONGUES IN THE CHURCH ? 2 pages.

WHAT COULD BE HAPPENING TODAY SOME REALISITC VEIWS

A PRIVATE PRAYER LANGUAGE

MY CONCLUSION

 

Bapmom I am under the understanding that all SIGN gifts HAVE stop. Not that God still doesn't heal today, but if someone really had the gift of healing, they would be able to heal all the time not some of the time. That doesn't happen today. I deal with that in my conclusion I believe.

 

RFW,

I don't remember healing being a sign gift.

 

There were 3 sign gifts, Tongues, Healing and Miracles. I will try and find scripture to prove this.

They were given to the Disciples and Apostles to show the JEWS that this person was indeed speaking from and for God. they ceased when we received Gods full revelation his word the BIBLE.

 

thats ok RFW, forget it.

 

OK saves me trouble looking it up.

 

I know its been said before, but each use of tongues in the New Testament refers to a known language.

The list of gifts Paul provides is a numerical list meaning there are some gifts more important than others. That does not diminish the gift in any way. Remember, gifts were and are given so that the body of believers works well together, so that every part fits together.

That being said, why do the Charasmatics emphasize tongues so much? It is the most spectacular and most visible gift. The Charasmatics use tongues to edify themselves and not the body of Christ.

I beleive God has the ability to use the gift today. Remember at Pentacost, Peter preached and everyone heard in their own language. He was speaking Aramaic I think. If I was there I would have heard the message in English, my Romanian friend in Romanian, our friends from Mexico in Spanish. The people there marveled that they understood this Galilean. As a result, the heard the Gospel in their own language and understood. 3000 were added that day to the Kingdom.

The incoherent babbling used today in Charasmatic churches has no resemblance to the tongues of the Bible.

FYI, at our local Charasmatic church, they have classes on how to speak in tongues. I thought it was a gift?

 

Brother Ian

OK you read each one of these pages in this link and tell me if BIBLICALLY tongues are for today. There is no way you scripturally say they are for today after looking at all these scripture verses !

http://www.angelfire.com/trek/adventurebooks/tongues.html

 

Right from Wrong,

In your paper you didn't reference Dueteronomy 28, Acts 10 or Acts 19. I was wondering why you didn't use these passages?

We know that tongues were used during Paul's time at the very least. I don't think anybody disputes that or that they were known languages.

What we really need to look at it 1 Corinthians 13:8-10. We see that knowledge will be done away and prophecy will fail. "Shall be done away" is a future indicative passive verb. The future tense indicates something that will happen in the future. The indicative mood shows its certainty. The passive voice tells us the action will be taken on the subject. In other words, something will happen that will cause prophecy and knowledge to be done away. When will this happen? When the perfect comes. When the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. In the Greek, this means the partial will be made inoperative or ineffective and powerless.

The word "cease" is also in the future tense and the indicative mood. In this manner, it parallels knowledge and prophecy. But it is in the middle voice rather than the passive. The middle voice indicates tongues will cease on its own while the passive voice indicates knowledge and prophecy will be rendered ineffective by something outside of them.

"That which is perfect" comes from the Greek word meaning having reached its end, finished, complete, perfect. Some say the perfect refers to the canon of Scripture. Others say it is Jesus Christ. If the perfect refers to the Bible, knowledge and prophecy have ceased. If the perfect refers to the Bible, its not found in any other Scriptures so you can't cross reference it.

The second thought of the perfect being Christ can be cross referenced. "Perfect" and "the end" are used elsewhere in Scripture. Its used in 1 Cor. 1:7-8 and 1 Cor. 15:24. In light of this, it is more likely that the perfect refers to Christ.

There is a day when tongues will cease and it will be before the Perfect comes. Remember what Paul said after he talked about tongues? 1 Corinthians 12:31 says, "But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

The excellent way is the way of love. All things must be handled in love.

 

By Golly you are right I forgot to mention those verses. In Acts, I will have to add those thanks

Those verses are talking about a KNOWN Language. I was a new Christian when I did this study and had very LITTLE resourses.

NO mention of tongues in Duet. Not sure what you are referring to ?

The Bottom line is if what is happening today fits with the proper church order that the Bible says the Gift Of Tongues must follow. According to pages 3 and 4 of my study then I would have to say yes they are for today. But I have yet to see that happen. I have been in many Tongue speaking churches, and have never seen such order. I was save through one.

Also the Bible say in 1 Cor. 14:32

That Tongues were for UNBELIEVERS NOT believers.
Explain that one ?

 

Right. You correctly stated tongues were a sign for unbelievers. That's another reason they really shouldn't be in the church although I know there are unbelievers there. Paul also talked about desiring the best gifts. Apparently, the Corinthians were all trying to get the gift of tongues. I agree with you (you said it on page 5) that spiritual gift(s) are given at the moment of salvation and once you've got a gift, you won't get any additional ones later on. There is no Scripture to back up getting more gifts later.

Dueteronomy 28:49 speaks of tongues as a judgement. I forgot about Genesis 11 where tongues is also a judgement.

You said that "The Bottom line is if what is happening today fits with the proper church order that the Bible says the Gift Of Tongues must follow." That's really where the Charasmatics fall apart. They want everyone to have the gift of tongues, but Paul clearly said not everyone will speak i tongues. They sure push it on everyone and if you don't speak in tongues, you are looked down upon as an "inferior" Christian. Even if you believed tongues should be used, wouldn't you want to do it Scipturally? There is no order that Paul talks about in the churches today. They babble the SAME THING over and over, and the interpreter gives the message. Even though the person says the same thing, the interpretation seems to change. Again, it's not like their speaking Spanish and someone is interpreting. That's the problem, they are not speaking known languages like the Bible says.

I think we're pretty close in agreement on this issue. I found one of the critical areas to correctly interpreting this whole thing is the structure of the original language and mood, voice, and tense of the words.

 

Thanks Brother Ian you are the only one who has ever responding by challenging me on my study. It helps me get feedback.

Please tell me what were the tongues in the old testament about ?

I do recall the tower of Babble the peoples were spread out and had to speak different languages.
What are you refering to?

 

Hey guys, I used to be a member of an Assembly of God church before I learned some of this stuff. I thought I could add to what's here, because of studied this a lot.

1. Brother Ian - You said "that which is perfect" refers to Christ. I tend to disagree because I would never want to be referred to as "that which" but with a human word like "who."

2. Knowledge and prophecy could be referring to the gifts that have ceased with the tongues - not regular knowledge or the fulfillment of prophecy. In other words, the God-given ability to prophesy and gain supernatural knowledge has ceased.

3. Keep up this conversation. If it were not for unjudgemental-sounding people I would still believe in those things. You never know what will happen to you because of a good search engine.

 

Lance RIGHT ON

 

OK Brother Ian I get it. Thanks

I totally agree with people not learning on their own but listening to someone who they look up to. That has been one of my PET pieves for years. If I am not sure about something like the gift of Tongues then I go home and study it. Some studies have taken months to do this one was the longest.

I had a Pastor who I agreed with just about everything ( or I should say the Holy Spirit in ME did ) but in 8 years there were just two things he had said that I didn't.

One was that if you raise your children a certain way, by certain giudlines that they would turn out right. He was in his 60's and could say that since his children did turn out right.

But to me Adam and Eve had the most perfect environment, walking with God and all and they didn't. And many other points I found.
The other is to long to go into.

 

Proverbs 22:6 says, "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." That doesn't mean the child will turn out right. Look at Franklin Graham. Godly parentw who raised him right, but he rebelled against the Lord. That verse means when you teach your kids right from wrong, when they get older, they'll remember what you taught them. It doesn't mean they do it, but they'll remember wha you taught them.

Keep studying. I tell my Sunday School students, when they exhaust all their resources when studying Scripture, then they can ask me and I'll help them. Until then I ask them, "What's the Bible say about that?" It has proved pretty effective. I don't want to be the first thing they go to. They'll remember a lot better if they rightly divide the truth for themselves.

Ian

 

I always understood that verse to mean.

Train up a child according to their bent, the way " they " should go. Although some principles in child rearing should be the same, consistant boundries, discipline, and love. But not every child has the same temperment, gifts and abilties. So what works for one may not work for another.

And yes I agree that also means right from wrong and when they are old they have something to fall back on. Not everyone is going to be saved, bottom line, even our own children. So we shouldn't be too surprised if we did ALL we possible could with the knowledge God has given us if one or two blow it.

God is responsible for the outcome not ME !

 

RIGHT ON

 

I seem to remember Fred Flintstone speaking in tongues: "Yabba dabba do"