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Neo-cons and fundamentalists - the power of fear

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Matt Black, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I think that the Peroutka crowd might buy that load of rubbish, and it seems as if the liberals might buy it judging from what Daisy said. It might sell well in grocery store tabloids next to the flying saucer abduction stories (not that those are not true) where it would be fictional variety from the non-fictional alien abduction story. In other words, it goes in the same category as the European notion that the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church are not oppressive churches and the same category as the people who claim that Evangelicals want to return to the theocracy of England and Rome or that POWs from WW II long for the prisons of Stalin and Hitler or that the Jews got a fair shake from the imperial British (I'm all right) under the League of Nations instead of a murderous betrayal (with the blessing of the anti-Semitic general British population).

    You are not all right anymore, <personal attakc deleted>

    [ November 04, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  2. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    The good thing about CMG is that he doesn't even pretend to consider a POV not his own. Rather than dispute the points made, or make any of his own, he simply dismisses the whole shebang by likening it to alien abductions.

    What am I going to retort, "Strausian theory has nothing to do with alien abductions"? **sigh**
     
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    :confused: is this prescription medication?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  4. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I watched all three episodes and whilst I thought the first episode was the most interesting with the middle episode being drivel and the final episode hugely cirumstantial it was all in al worth watching.

    The first episode was interesting in that the programme's loathing of the Neo-Cons meant that they had to heap praise on Nixon, Kissinger and Reagan! I can't remember I saw the last time anybody on BBC 2 was keen on Henry Kissinger. It seemed as though the Power of Nightmares had to be built up by the BBC towards the Neo-Cons as well.

    The second episode was rubbish, trying to pretend that the Soviet Union was never a threat to the West or Western Democracy or indeed anywhere else (Hungary 1956 anybody? Czechoslovakia 1968? Afghanistan 1979?) and that the Neo-Con worries were deliberately made up and false just in order to keep power and attempt to impose a value sytem on the USA. Frankly that's a load of nonsense and the BBC trying to blame the collapse of Communism solely on Soviet internal inertia and decay is silly.

    The third episode wasmuch more thought-provoking in trying to disprove the existence of A-Q. No doubt A-Q has been hyped up but what was never disputed is the Islamist ideas behind it. A-Q may well be a very loose organisation, essentially just a money gathering op from Bin Laden. But that doesn't deny the fact that those who now shelter under its name still try to bomb and poison and kill with the West now as their main targets.

    Whilst it was a compelling series, there were a couple of major flaws:

    1. The programme did not adequately engage with how the Madrid bombings fit into this.

    2. More importantly, if the thesis is that you ideas are powerful, the programme has missed a trick - the fact that no network exists is irrelevant. It is the very ideas that are important. If the idea that violence against America or Britain is legitimate and achievable encourages only 19 people to do something, they can still cause a lot of damage. That's the point - the neo-cons aren't a conserted cabal out to deny freedom (well, I don't think they are, anyway), but are melded together by very powerful ideas, ideas which they think are right. In the same way, a radical, violent Islamism doesn't actually need a co-ordinated network as such - what it needs is money, so if you know a guy who's part of a rich Saudi family who's sympathetic to your point of view..... A poor terrorist isn't that much of a threat.


    The nightmare out there does, to a degree, exist and the Neo-Cons, whilst there is an agenda with them (name me one set of poltical thinkers who don't have an agenda) cannot be totally written off as bonkers. Yesterday's results, now widely seen as the backlash of the ever-derided 'silent majority' with their beliefs in Faith, Flag and Family, show that they have a lot of support.

    The more worrying part for me was the lack of reality-check on both sides - security heads in the US took seriously claims about Communist plans in the 80s, despite those claims partly being the result of CIA-organised counter-espionage rumour spreading and not being true, and the radical Islamists seem to have totally divorced themselves from any notion of the value of a human life - these are the scary things, that people can be possessed by such nonsense.

    That said, I have to say, though, that one of the most jawdropping scenes for me was Rumsfeld giving almost word for word the same speech about the soviet threat in the 70's as he has been doing for WMD in Iraq.

    Their view of the Russians seemed to be if the intelligence can't find any evidence (I think it was for some kind of submarine sonar) then the Russians must have something even more advanced and dangerous.

    What I couldn't work out was whether the neo-cons actually believe this rubbish or, as it seemed from the programme, they needed to construct a myth for the american people to believe in.

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  5. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Since WW2 the purpose of our owners has been to maintain continual fear in America ala "1984."
     
  6. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Yes. He seems to be obsessed with hatred of anyone associated with the Constitution Party.
     
  7. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    As I'm a Brit and cannot vote Dem or Rep, still less CP, I'm not sure why he is angry with me

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  8. JesusandGeorge04

    JesusandGeorge04 New Member

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    You mean Finland and Afghanistan? Those are the only countries ever taken over by the USSR using overt force. The others had no military left to speak of when the Soviets liberated them from the Germans (who thought of them as sub-humans). Yes, they repressed Eastern Europe, but their military influence was pretty limited elsewhere; by no means could they have taken over Western Europe in the 60's and 70's, much less us. We had the edge in practically everything... which led the Soviet higher-ups to adopt a 'facade' strategy, leading us into believing they were more of a threat... and the neo-cons bought right into it with their own plans.

    Now, with trillions upon trillions of dollars of Reagan's debt... who's laughing now? Not those who had their community programs cut.
     
  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Yes. He seems to be obsessed with hatred of anyone associated with the Constitution Party. </font>[/QUOTE]That is a flat lie, PennJim. You are always making emotional false assertions. Why don't you leave the emotions to the ladies?
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Closing this thread before the attacks get any worse.

    We are not going to let any further threads degenerate into personal battles - they are a rotten testimont before the world.
     
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