Nephilim

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by BibleBob, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. BibleBob

    BibleBob
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    Hey,
    I was curious. What do you all think the sons of God and the nephilim in Gen. 6 are? I've done some reading online and found that opinions are very varied and in some cases way out there. I'm not really sure what I think about them yet. How do you interpret this passage?
    Gen. 6:1-4 -
    Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless F91 his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

    Bob
     
  2. Marcia

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    I think it means the sons of the godly line intermarried with the daughters of men (ungodly line). There are 3 or 4 views on this and I've read all the pros and cons for all of them.

    One thing that should be pointed out is that the text does not say the nephilim resulted from this intermarriage -- it states the nephilim were already there. The nephilim were just men who were bigger than normal.

    I don't see how angelic beings, who don't have a gender or a body, could have relations with human women. That sounds more mythical to me than Biblical. I realize that many solid believers hold that view, however, but I just can't swallow it.

    This is one passage I really hope will be explained to me in heaven!
     
  3. Bro. Jeff

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    Me x2. I have the same issue with that theory.
     
  4. Charles Meadows

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    Historically conservative protestants have seen the "sons of God" as the children of Seth. Most liberal scholars have chosen to see this as a mythic reference to intercourse between angels (sons of God) and human women. The Enochic literature (the book of Enoch proper and some other noncanonical second temple era Jewish writings) speaks of Azaz'el and Shamhazai (fallen angels) have relations with human women.
     
  5. Daniel Dunivan

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    The Greek separation of spirit and matter is not present in the ancient Hebrew mindset; they would have no problem with the "angelic beings" having human intercourse (i.e. look at the Sodom story). As far as gender is concerned, the "feet" being covered in Isaiah 6 are not feet with 5 toes--if you know what I mean.

    As Charles pointed out, the extracannonical literature speaks of angelic beings. They expand these four verses and make an entire myth out of it. This event looms much larger as a cause of immoral behavior (a "fall" of sorts) than the text from ch. 3 for intertestamental writers of the earliest Jewish apocalypses.

    Grace and Peace, Danny [​IMG]
     
  6. Sularis

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    Well lil ol liberal me - has a problem with an ungodly line existing - since everyone descended from Adam - there existed no ungodly or godly lines at that moment in time - God later calls out a people - but has not done so at this point

    Also its interesting to note other passages
    Jesus when He cast out demons He didnt send them to the pit - He just cast em out - pigs or whatever - but there are demons sitting in the pit right now - because they did something horrible above and beyond normal demonic activity

    So for me I can only see how Nephilim must be angels, sorry demons getting it on with the womenfolk - it just makes more sense then saying oh yeah tall people - they are horribly and innately evil and not only that but they are their own species.
     
  7. blackbird

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    Sularis---the ungodly line existed through Cain!

    If you study the context of the scripture in question you will see that develop. The ungodly line through Cain and the Godly line through Seth!

    Interestingly, both lines "carry on" through the ages----and Jude picks up and tells about how the ungodly line is still going "in the way of Cain."(Jude v.11)

    Its simple to see that what happened in Genesis 6 was the "unequal yokeing" of Believers with unbelievers---with a added twist of tinkering with human genetics---sorta a Cainite version of Hitler's "Aryan" race!

    Whole lot more believeable than a bunch of angels doing it---by the way---I don't recall the word ever referring to angels as "sons of God"
     
  8. tfisher1

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    I believe the passage is absolutely referring to fallen angels. I have been studying this as this is a fascinating subject. I challenge everyone who is interested to start researching the topic on your own and see what you come up with. After reading everything I could get my hands on, I have no doubt in my mind that these were definately fallen angels. I will post some links of a few places which do some explaining. Dr. EW Bullinger was a big proponent of this theory, and shows that early church teachers and others believed it to be that way also(including Josephus). As I research Dr. Bullinger's writings on the subject, it starts making perfect sense. Many of the mythologies may have been started by people who began worshiping these "Nephalim".

    By the way, just joined this board. Been lurking for a week or two to see what the "jist" of this board is, nice to have a community of believers to fellowship, debate, discuss etc...

    See links below for some furthur info...
    Link1

    link2
     
  9. tfisher1

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  10. DavidsAngel

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    according to the notes in my Bible the word Nephilim means people fo great size and strength. The Hebrew word means "fallen ones"

    They were viewed as men who were ripe for judgement.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    I hold that these were part demonic/part human "men of mythology", ie, Heracles, Atlas, et al. Do you think people of all nationalities just sucked these stories out of their thumbs? There was a historical basis, passed on from generation to generation.

    These were men who were "gods" - a term used in the Bible of demons - and men.

    The bloodline and the human genome was becoming tainted and corrupted. So God chose (sovereignly) to bestow His grace on one family.

    Thankfully.
     
  12. blackbird

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    Dr. Bob??? How is the "bloodline" shared between men and angels when angels have no blood??

    At the very most---these people were human under the direct control of the fallen angels---humans who were influenced by the angels---otherwise, you would have to argue from Biology that angels are human---with the ability to reproduce with the same EXACT reproduction system as humans--down to the very last slide of DNA!
     
  13. Dr. Bob

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    How did the Spirit of God impregnate Mary? The seed of the woman was mixed with what?

    Demonic beings (different than angels) and the offspring they produced with women were different than the duality of the nature of Christ. Jesus was 100% man (from ovum of Mary) and 100% God (from the overshadowing of the Spirit impregnating Mary). Hypostasis.

    Nephilim were like us - 50% man (from ova of earthly women) and 50% demonic (from seed/spawn of demons). A master race, godlike in power, almost invincible.

    Don't want to get distasteful here, but could not Jesus have sired offspring? Would not HIS semen have been holy and perfect?

    Even AFTER his resurrection (in a spiritualized body) Jesus ate, talked, could be touched, functioned in a body.

    Spirit beings (in spiritualized bodies) could do less? They were just Casper the friendly ghost? I think not.
     
  14. blackbird

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    So, what you're saying is---is that the same power that God has to "overshadow" Mary---is the same power that these demons have to "overshadow" another female---demons with God's power??

    And how come all of this stuff stopped somewhere along the lines of King David(give or take a few decades)---then suddenly there's no more mention of these giants(Your Nephilim, my genetic "screw-up") from that point forward---how come the Bible never mentions Jesus having a confrontation with these so-called "Half Human---half demon" people!??

    And can you show me evidence of these bazarre things happening today----something more than what Ringlin' Brothers can produce!!???

    Your Southern Baptist preaching buddy,
    Brother David
     
  15. DavidsAngel

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    Oh see this is getting good. I never thought it would go off in this direction. -pulls up a seat- I wanna see how this turns out :D
     
  16. tfisher1

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    I don't think it happens today because it wouldn't do any good... The "sons of God" were attempting to corrupt the seed of Adam to divert the coming Messiah. Yes, all the Nephalim would have been wiped out in the flood, but not the fallen angels. The same thing occurred post-flood also, Hence "In those days and also after that".

    Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

    Num 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them."

    Also, Jude says that the angels who left their former abode were locked into the "abyss"... I personally think that would be quite a deterrent for future occurrences of this happening.

    Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


    Our human minds seem to want to ration away something that sounds like it came out of the X-files, but if its in the Bible... I believe it. I even hear some people try to ration away the story of when Saul went to the witch and spoke to Samuel (who was already dead). The Bible says "And Samuel said..." not "and a demon pretending to be Samuel said"... but I still hear on occasion many different reasons why it wasn't "really" Samuel...
    Anyway, it would be nice to say that the "sons of God" were the line of Seth (although it would be complete conjecture and assumption) and that the "daughters of men" were the "daughters of Cain" (again, no biblical basis that I can see?) so our rational human minds could make sense of it. I believe that when one starts to believe that these truly were angels, the O.T. takes on a different meaning, in that you can see Satan starting from the very beginning trying to do anything to stop Jesus Christ from claiming victory on the Cross. HE LOST!!!!!!PRAISE GOD!!!
     
  17. blackbird

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    I don't think you guys understand! If the angels "mixed and mingled" with humans---where did they get their human bodies?? Complete with reproduction system that will give you 1/2 human and 1/2 angel???

    Now, I've seen a Collie dog and a Lab dog get together and produce puppies that are 1/2 Collie and 1/2 Lab----but they're still what?? 100% dog!

    I've never seen a dog get together with any other species besides a dog!

    And what about these verses??

    1Corinthians 15: 38-39, "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh; but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."

    "But there is one kind of flesh of men"---what does that mean?? It would mean that somewhere down the line---the angels would have to copy the flesh of men----but---man is made in the image of God out of the dust of the earth---it is unique--it cannot be copied! See??

    And if it were possible for angels to reproduce with humans---pray tell of the offspring's salvation! Salvation does not belong to angels---yet you say that this offspring is 1/2 human and 1/2 angel----answer the question----what about the offspring's salvation??

    Again---answer the question----where did the flesh of angels and its reproduction system come from??
     
  18. Bro Tony

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    I also have a hard time believing this verse is refering to angels as they, "neither marry or are given in marriage" This type of approach would open the door for a Rosemary's Baby type of incident even today.

    Procreation is in the realm of this planet not the realm of the heavenlies. One must have a physical body with reproductive organs to procreate. Do angels procreate in heaven now, I don't think the Bible allows for that understanding. Just my .02

    Bro Tony
     
  19. Jacob Webber

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    I have a question on this as well. we know angels can posess people and animals could this be what the verse was talking about Angels that desired women and posessed mens bodies to achieve these and because of there great sin the degrading of DNA was even greater causing deforms in the gene pool such as Giants.

    Aslo when the angels appear as men. I would think they would have a full body of a man. Such as the two angels in the form of men with Lot and Abraham. Angels have many forms some with 6 wings others different.

    This is one of those questions that most likely will never be answered.

    We know that Angels are called the Sons of God, We know that Angels can take the form of a Man, And we know that Angels have feelings as well. We know that Angels have desires hence Satan's Fall. I would not think it to far fetched that a Fallen Angel would stoop even lower and desire a woman.

    We know it is possible if God allowed it. And God has allowed alot in the past. Even now.
     
  20. Marcia

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    If this is the same Bullinger as the Bullinger who came up with the Gospel in the Stars, then he's not a credible source. His Gospel in the Stars is flawed through and through and is unbiblical.
     

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