NET Bible: 1 Cor 6:9 -- Practicing Homosexuals

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by RedGhost, Aug 5, 2006.

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  1. RedGhost

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    1 Cor 6:9: NET Bible:

    "6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals,"

    The textual note for the translation "practicing homosexuals" includes
    the following:

    "Since there is a distinction in contemporary usage between sexual orientation and actual behavior, the qualification “practicing” was supplied in the translation, following the emphasis in BDAG."

    What do you think about qualifying "homosexuals" with "practicing"?

    What is a non-practicing homosexual?

    Does anybody understand the difference between "orientation" and
    "behavior" stated in the note?

    Agree or disagree with this translation?

    regards,
    RG.
     
  2. Lagardo

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    I understand the distinction they are making, that someone may feel inclined toward homosexaul behavior but does not act.

    I'd prefer to see people use the word homosexual to mean only people who commit homosexual acts, but society (including Christians) seem to want to use the term to describe what a person is rather than what a person does.
     
  3. robycop3

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    As a heterosexual, I have feelings, too. and GOD has set standards for hetero behavior also. Having homo feelings isn't sinful in itself...it's how one ACTS on those feelings. If a pretty woman catches my eye, that's a natural, built-in feeling God supplied me with. However, if I fantasize about her and I together, or actively "hit" on her, then I'd be sinning. Same with homos, IMO. If a HS is saved, he/she may carry their orientation to the grave without sinning because of it.

    God has set standards for sexual behavior...between man and woman in marriage, with homosexuality condemned. Having never had HS inclinations, I have no idea how one acquires that orientation, but I don't believe WE should judge someone just for having such an inclination.
     
  4. LeBuick

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    If I understand what Jesus said correctly, lusting after the same sex in your mind is the sin. It does not take the physical act.
     
  5. JamieinNH

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    From the way I read it, I believe they are saying that practicing homosexuals would be something similar to an alcoholic and a non-practicing homosexual is like an alcoholic that goes to alcoholics anonymous.

    They are and will always be an alcoholic, but alcohol no longer runs their life. They have to keep a constant mind on it and make sure they use the AA system to stay clean, for forever more, they will be known and will call themselves alcoholics.

    If someone is a Homosexual, and turns to God, and no longer practicing homosexuality, are they still a homosexual that just don't practice and sin any more?

    Or, does because they get saved and start living right, does something happen that causes them not be a homosexual anymore. Do they just stop lusting after the same sex?

    I don't know what happened when a homosexual starts to believe and stopps becoming a practicing homosexuals, but to me, it's a step in the right direction. If you're not practicing, then you're not sinning.

    Jamie
     
  6. JamieinNH

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    True, I agree with you, but it's also the same rule that is applied to a straight person. If anyone looks at a man or woman with lust, then they have sinned.

    Also, the OP was asking about the term "practicing homosexuals", there are many sin that a homosexual or straight person can commit the very same way, but the ACT of a homosexual is something that a straight person can't do, and it's wrong, I think that is why it is mentioned in the Bible seperately, along side of lust and adultery.


    Jamie
     
  7. robycop3

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    Also, so is lusting(Not just noticing) after members of the other gender.


    I hate to spoil the party, but shouldn't this be in another forum?
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    This verse is easier to understand in the 1587 English:

    1Co 6:9 (Geneva Bible, 1587):
    Knowe yee not that the vnrighteous shall
    not inherite the kingdome of God? Be not deceiued:
    neither fornicatours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
    nor wantons, nor buggerers,
     
  9. LeBuick

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    I love your analogy but I believe your conclusion is worldly and belings to AA.

    I was an alchoholic but I left it on the alter. After becoming a pastor, I missed a preaching engagement from sleeping of the effects of alchohol. That night, I went to the Church and prayed many tearful hours at the alter. I am not recovering, I was healed.

    I have not desired a drop since that day which was over 10 years ago. In fact, a few years ago I tried to be sociable and sip a wine cooler and couldn't tolerate the taste.

    It's like the leper or the blind man. He was not a recovering blind person, he was healed and was able to see like others. They were not recovering lepers, etc...

    Homosexuality is a desease, sickness in like fashion. One can abstain and live with fighting the lust in their minds but Jesus can not only forgive the sin, he can remove the desire and wipe the guilty stain away.

    Too many in the Church carry the stain of guilt. Why?
     
  10. RedGhost

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    Amen! Just like Paul states a few verses later...such were some of you..

    1 Cor 6:11 "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." ESV


    Also:

    2 Cor 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." ESV


    One of the glories of the gospel is freedom from sin..and it's enslaving power.

    I know a few men who used to engage in homosexual behavior..it was an awesome blessing to them to be free and rid of that abominable sin when
    they became Christians.

    I don't find the translation "practicing homosexual" very helpful. Seems to add
    ambiguity (ie. can i be a homosexual and a christian..as long as I don't engage in certain sex acts?..etc..etc) to an issue that if anything..needs very clear statements. Perhaps my problem is I don't buy into the idea that somebody
    is born a homosexual..or God made them that way...hence I reject the
    "orientation" bit. I believe it is a sinful behavior that is learned and can
    be cured through the blood and righteousness of Christ.

    regards,
    RG.
     
  11. Ransom

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    RedGhost asked:

    What do you think about qualifying "homosexuals" with "practicing"?

    The word Paul uses, arsenokoite - which may be his own coinage - is a compound word combining the Greek terms for man and for sexual intercourse. If arsenokoite is indeed coined by Paul, he probably derived it from the terms used in the Septuagint translation of Lev. 20:13.

    In other words, in all likelihood Paul is specifically condemning the practice of sexual intercourse between men, and not necessarily the desire that leads to it. (But note that in Rom. 1:27 he does say that the lust that leads to such acts is also the result of sin and the rejection of God.)

    What is a non-practicing homosexual?

    Does anybody understand the difference between "orientation" and
    "behavior" stated in the note?


    Presumably, a "non-practicing homosexual" would be someone whose sexual desire ("orientation") is for members of the same sex, though that person may not engage in homosexual acts ("behaviour"). I have one such friend that I know of: his orientation is homosexual and he has no desire for women, but he recognizes that to behave in accordance with his homosexual desires would be sin, and so he abstains.
     
  12. JamieinNH

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    That was better way of saying it then the way I did. I tried to say the same thing, "Presumably, a "non-practicing homosexual" would be someone whose sexual desire ("orientation") is for members of the same sex, though that person may not engage in homosexual acts ("behaviour")." when I said I thought it was similar to Alcoholics Anonymous. In most people, once you're an Alcoholic, you would consider yourself, always an Alcoholic.

    I think a Homosexual that is a Christian would be very similar.. They would always have the feelings for the same-sex, but they would not act on them.

    I would also think, taking this further, that the longer they didn't act on their feelings, and the more they studied the Word and went to church, the less the attraction to the same-sex would get.

    Wouldn't it be like any of us sinners? The longer we study the Word and the more we give our life to Christ the easier it gets to not sin the way we did BEFORE we knew Christ?


    Of course, this begs another question. How many of us have welcomed homosexuals into our church? Shared the Word with them, and tried to convince them in a loving mannger that we don't want them to burn in Hell? I know I haven't, I am not sure how my pastor or church would take it if I did. Most people I have talked to when the idea of a homosexual comes up, the tone of the conversation turns ugly and really non-loving.

    How do we witness to them and love them without accepting them?


    Jamie
     
  13. LeBuick

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    Agreed, a very solid point from my view.


    One of our musicians was homosexual but recently married one of the women in the Church. He seems repentent. I would allow the man in the Church but not the practice. But that goes for any sin. We should allow the sinner but not the sin.

    I guess like Jesus allowed Judas in the fold but didn't allow his thievery...
     
  14. franklinmonroe

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    It only takes a single sin to make an individual a sinner (ask Adam): a single theft defines an individual as a "thief", a single lie makes into a liar, and one murder = murderer. These unrighteous persons will also not inherit the kingdom of God. Paul's list here is not intended to be completely exhaustive.

    Thus, even a single homosexual act or desire would cause an individual to become stained as "homosexual". Regardless of whether the desire remains or never returns, that individual has a reputation with God as a "homosexual" (their sin may be hidden from us). Although unlikely, this could be their only sin... and the one that condemns them. For all have sinned (it doesn't say how many sins or only if continously).

    Only God knows then whether any individual has repented and turned (180 degrees) and He would no longer see that individual's sin because of the covering blood of Christ. He/she is become a new creature. They are not unrighteous (sinners) any more; specifically, they are no longer known to God as thieves, liars, murders, or homosexuals. They are His children and eligible for inheritance.

    Therefore, a "non-practicing" homosexual would have at some point in the past been guilty but is not currently involved in that sin, as far as it can be determined. As humans, we do not know if that individual has been forgiven by God or has not yet repented (and perhaps may commit the sin again in the future). We can easily recognize the practicing sinners but we rarely can identify the non-practicing ones.

    I am not saying that the NET is making a good translation here, although I can see a distinction (without difference) between practicing and non-practicing sinners because neither is going to inherit. Many non-practicing (ie good) persons attend church weekly and give to charity... but they are not saved from their sin. Improperly, sometimes people think that if through their own willpower they do not sin, they will be right with God. That is not enough.

    Now, some one will ask: what about the washed-in-the-blood sinner (with homosexuality now forgotten by God) that commits the sin again? It is possible. But that sin is also covered and it does not change the individual's status with God. Sure the individual needs to get right, and God may chastise his child, but they are not seen as a "homosexual" by heaven's accounting (although that is how we may humanly see them). That person is still counted righteous and still will inherit the kingdom of God. Obviously, this is a once-saved-always-saved position.

    I was (was!) a "sinner", saved by grace. He doesn't know that person any more (I don't either).
     
  15. kubel

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    The last sin in that verse is speaking of, quite bluntly, gay sex. The sin before that is speaking of gay appearance/feelings (sissyness). I don't think "practicing homosexuals' should be used here because it's just too watered down and can be too easily misunderstood and misapplied.

    So I disagree with this translation.
     
  16. LeBuick

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    I believe this statement is very true but it conflicts with this one;

    Non practicing homosexual implies you are still a homesexual. This could be. The difference being, are you just abstaining from the act or did you turn your sin over to God. If you turned your sins over to God, "1 Cor 6:11 "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

    After which;

    "2 Cor 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."

    RedGhost did a good job pointing this out. If you fit the later catagory then you are not a "non-practicing" homosexual or you would still be carrying the guilty stain.

    The songwriter did not say, I once was lost but now I'm a non-practicing lost anymore. He says now I found.
     
  17. LeBuick

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    By the way, I did see the rest of your post so my post was not sprcifically directed at you.
     
  18. Ransom

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    kubel said:

    The sin before that is speaking of gay appearance/feelings (sissyness).

    Actually, the two words Paul uses are counterparts: arsenokoite connotes the dominant partner in same-sex activity, while malakos (the word to which you refer) is the submissive partner, i.e. a catamite. The library is closed now, so unfortunately I can't consult BDAG to verify this, but I suspect (given what is said in the definition for arsenokoite) that it would bear me out.

    Even if Paul's two word choices are meant to distinguish between the two partners, however, BDAG does point out that Paul's condemnation of arsenokoite and malakos cannot be limited strictly to pederasty.
     
  19. franklinmonroe

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    Hello LeBuick,

    I understand what I wrote before could easily be confusing. In simpler terms, I described four different individual states:

    1. old creature practicing = openly indulging homosexual; God sees a sinner (we do, too)
    2. old creature non-practicing = abstaining through willpower; God still sees a sinner, specifically a homosexual
    ------
    3. new creature but falls back into sin = needs restored; God sees only His child (God cannot see or remember the homosexuality)
    4. new creature non-practicing = preserved by indwelling Holy Spirit; God sees His child

    Yes, I had deliberately implied that a non-practicing homosexual still has a homosexual status with God (even if he/she is abstaining from the act or thought, as 2. above). If that individual has turned his/her sin over to God (as 3. and 4.) then apply 1 Cor 6:11 "And such were some of you..."

    The wonderful thing about God is He really does forgive and forgets. We also should forget that a professing brother or sister in Christ was ever a homosexual. I think we're in agreement, and I hope this was clearer.
     
    #19 franklinmonroe, Aug 17, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2006
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