Never Discussed In Christian Circles

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. HAMel

    HAMel
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    I'd like to change the subject a bit and discuss a topic that is never spoken of in Christian Circles.

    To begin with, let me say that I am a Born Again Christian. I do believe in the Lord and have accepted Jesus as my Savior. I also accept the Word in that when a believer dies they immediately find themselves in the presence of the Lord. I also believe that when the rich man died and opened his eyes he was in torment. Really, I fully believe this as I do the entire Word of God.

    On occasion however, something pops up that's just out of the ordinary. For example, I just read a story of a young man who was born in 1946. In 1969 he found himself plagued with a recurring vision of an airplane exploding in mid-air. After seeking help from a talking doctor he was hypnotized and told the story of being 18 years old in the RAF during WW II. As a crew member on a bomber they were attacked by enemy fire and their plane did explode in mid-air. This happened in 1943. He named everyone on board, their location and flight path at the time of the attack, the mission they were on, etc.

    Back then it was just another loss of an aircraft as we were in a World War. An exhaustive check of old RAF Records bore this mans story to be true.

    General George Patton, according to witnesses and as depicted in the movie, described a battle field where he fought as a Roman Soldier.

    A couple three years ago a small boy (6-8 years old) was visiting in Japan with his parents, as I recall, and when they arrived at this particular spot this child began telling of how he flew a fighter plane over that exact inlet where they were visiting to attack the enemy (Japanese) on the main island. He provided his name and rank and sure enough, a check of the records provided there was in fact a man by that name, a Lieutenant in the Navy who was a pilot and assigned to that area during the war. The record reflected that by wars end this young Lieutenant did fall to hostile enemy fire. At the time this story aired on the News Media world wide.

    How do we explain this? What do you think of such?

    Considering another phenomena, on average there are on average close to 250 (creditable) reports of Unidentified Flying Objects seen around the world every month. Many years ago my mother and I both witnessed several bright lights flying erratically and at an extreme high altitude while living in Southern California. I was just a child but can still remember the turn of events as if it happened yesterday.

    Do I believe these are little green men from Mars? No. I do believe they are real however as a mirage or swamp gas simply will not return a solid blip on radar and then, when you consider actual video recording of such, how can one claim there's nothing to it?

    I do not believe that haunting of old houses and battlefields are disembodied spirits looking for their heads or trying to find the light so they can pass over to the other side which is how most TV Drama portrays, but something is going on in some of these place.

    Now, I really believe the Word of God to be silent on such matters as had there been any reference to such, way too many people would have been worshiping the phenomena rather than the Lord. In fact, there are way too many cults out there already that devote their time the worship of UFO's, the occult, etc.

    So, not intending to shake any one's faith here, my intent is to merely explore your thoughts in these areas of our world that, as I said, are never spoken of in Christian Circles. Are what we see and hear part of the Great Deception? Are haunted houses filled with demons? Do we really have a total and complete firm grip on the handle of life as we think we do? Or, are there much more to the mysteries of our Lord and Savior that we just can't fathom?

    Edgar Casey (whom it is claimed believed in the Lord) put forth a belief that life was like a ladder. When you died you kept coming back again and again until you finally came to realize the need for Salvation. At this point, when you died that was it. You didn't come back anymore.

    One final matter. It was recently discovered by X-ray that I have a perfectly square tiny piece of something metallic deep in my left hip. This item is extremely thin and can be seen only from a "head on" shot. A sideways X-ray does not reflect it. The doctor accused me of being hit in combat by a small piece of shrapnel.

    There is a doctor out there who would be interested in removing this thing as he considers it an "alien implant". Well, it is something "alien" in my hind parts but I don't know if I really want to know what it is, nor do I believe that one of those little green men put it there.

    Okay, there it is. Don't be too hard on me. One doesn't know unless they ask.
     
  2. matt wade

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    It is possible for Satan and his hosts to possess a person. I'm not sure whether Satan is able to directly put thoughts into our mind, but it could be a likely reason for the "reincarnation" stories.

    I believe "true" UFO sightings (ones that aren't some trick of light, etc) are military experiments.
     
  3. revmwc

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    I think there may be another verse but this is the closest I could find. Maybe someone else can remember I thought I remembered hearing a verse that said he can appear as anything he wants to or something to that effect. But maybe it is this verse.

    2 Corinthians 11: 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    If satan and his angels can appear or transform into an angel of light so can they form as lights in the atmosphere. Satan is the prince and power of the air,

    Ephesians 2: 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience

    Satan and his demons while they cannot possess a believer because the Holy Spirit does they can influence and place in them these memories from the past.

    The paranormal, divinations and those type things are all of satan. If you think about it when the rapture occurs what better way to explain why all these folks are missing than to say aliens came down and took them all. Bilps on a radr screen as the thing appears satan and his angels can do after all he is the author of deception. Able to deceive many.
     
  4. menageriekeeper

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    My belief is that "past life experiences" are indeed a way for Satan to decieve the masses.

    However, if God is standing outside time as we believe and we are made in the image of God, then somewhere (perhaps in our unconscience) we possibly have a connection to events that happened before or after us as a result of being connected spiritually to the spiritual world.

    As far as UFO's go, most are natural phenomen and the rest are gov't experiments that they don't want us to know about. :rolleyes:

    Hauntings I believe are caused by demon activity as I don't believe a human soul can linger here, but must move toward its eternal destiny when the body dies.
     
  5. HAMel

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    Thanks for your responses, folks.

    I too point the finger at Satan and his minions as he does have awesome power to deceive and is an expert at what he does.

    Years ago I spoke with my pastor about this and by his reaction it was like I tore him right out of the frame. He actually "hot footed" into his office leaving me standing there. Like he was afraid of it.

    I don't see this issue as a taboo topic. In my opinion pastors/preachers should not be afraid of touching on these topics as awareness to such is increasing on a regular basis. Reality TV Shows are cropping up on all the networks. Times change and the church needs to keep up with the latest. Not alter their messages, but keep up.

    How easy it would be for our youth to get caught up in the mess, if for no other reason, it's not being discussed for exactly what it is. A deception.
     
  6. revmwc

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    When I pastored I had someone decorate a shoe box and write on it, Stump the Pastor, place questions in here. I would then take those questions and develop a message on that question, this would be our Sunday Night service message. It kept me on my toes and gave me a perspective on what the folks wanted to know. One question that I remember is this, did Naoh take baby animals on the Ark, and another could Adam and Eve actually communicate with the animals. Great questions and yes I went back through scripture and developed messages on both. If a pastor is afraid to to be tested by questions then maybe he needs to be.

    By the way in case your wondering I answered each and everyone.
     
    #6 revmwc, Apr 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2011
  7. InTheLight

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    Have you seen the x-ray? I'd get another one taken. They aren't too expensive, maybe $40 plus the office visit.

    As to the past lives war stories, I say it's a bunch of hooey, but I'd have to really look at the source material before I'd render judgment. As to the Japan story, I really question how a child while on land can recognize a waterway that he could have only seen in a past life from an airplane (and probably at night.)

    As to General Patton's story it could simply be a dream that he elevated in his mind to be reality.

    UFO's? Not aliens, not demons flying around, simply man-made aircraft, reflections, balloons, or natural phenomena like St. Elmo's fire.

    Haunted houses? The work of someone's overactive imagination.

    Life as described by Edgar Casey as being a ladder and we keep coming back? We know this is false because of Hebrews 9:27: And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

    Do yourself a favor and get another x-ray taken. Ask for the film when it's completed.
     
  8. Tom Bryant

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    And get another doctor than the one who thinks you have an alien implant in you.
     
  9. HAMel

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    The one who took the original X-ray was a Chiropractor and at first he didn't even notice it. What I was referring to was there "is" a doctor (Dr. Roger Leir) out there who operates to remove "alien implants". Needless to say I'd never contact him one way or the other but there are folks who believe this.

    InTheLight, Tom Bryant, here in lies the problem. With all due respect, from the tone(s) of your messages this is all a bunch of hooey. To an extent, I agree with you but should this be the proper way to discuss/present the phenomena to those who are having a hard time trying to understand it? Similar to my pastor at the time who cut and run when I brought it up.

    What I'm saying here is that Satan needs to be presented exactly as he is on all fronts of society today. Pastors and Churches aren't doing that. Why not? You simply cannot discount it all away as "hooey". Satan is for real.

    I assume that most of you know the Pope's position on extra-terrestrials? He's claimed they do exist and this opens a great mission field for the Church. How many Catholics are there in the world?

    ...by the way, anyone heard the Pope Eloped? :laugh:
     
  10. Tom Bryant

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    Speaking for myself, I do believe that the past life stuff is worse than hooey, it is evil. It's against Scripture. There have been no past lives or why didn't the rich guy go on to another life instead of to hell? Or why did the thief on the cross go to paradise rather than on to his next life?

    The problem with internet reports about past lives, extra-terrestrials and the like is that anyone can write stuff on the internet.

    I have no clue about whether there are others in God's universe. I don't dismiss it out of hand. For me, the fact that the pope believes in them is pretty good evidence for me not to believe it. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  11. HAMel

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    For me, the fact that the pope believes in them is pretty good evidence for me not to believe it.

    I hear 'ya. A good reason to head in the opposite direction.
     
  12. InTheLight

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    I said the business with past lives was hooey for the Bible says:

    Hebrews 9:27: And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

    If you want my opinion as to what these people are experiencing I will speculate that they have had dreams where they were another person in another time and for some reason it became very real to them.

    I have very vivid dreams. They are incredibly detailed. I frequently have episodes of deja vu (that feeling that the exact same thing has happened before.) Sometimes I can even predict what is going to happen next (on a 5 to 10 second time frame.) I chalk it up to having dreamed it before or having experienced it before.

    When this happens I can sometimes make the connection that I had previously dreamed something remarkably similar. It's happened to me so many times whenever it occurs and I can't make the connection to a dream, I simply attribute it to a dream. At no time do I entertain the thought that it happened to me in a previous life!
     
  13. HAMel

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    I have very vivid dreams. They are incredibly detailed. I frequently have episodes of deja vu (that feeling that the exact same thing has happened before.) Sometimes I can even predict what is going to happen next (on a 5 to 10 second time frame.) I chalk it up to having dreamed it before or having experienced it before.

    Thank you. In fact, I suspect that many of us experience such but as Believers, we just don't want to admit it.

    A personal insight of mine, long before coming to the Lord, I had an incident with deja vu shortly after enlisting in the military back in 1965. It was such a strong and powerful event that it took me a few minutes to regain my composure. The episode was extremely odd as I was only three months into the military and for sure, it seemed so real from an earlier awareness of being in the military. Nothing about being "shot down" or any other such event but rather, it had to do with my service cap (the one worn with the dress uniform) and from an earlier time. As quickly as it happened it ended.

    An odd situation to say the least. Since becoming a Christian I've had a couple of other instances where I experienced deja vu but nothing like back in '65. Odd.
     
  14. JohnDeereFan

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    Much of it can be chalked up to urban legends and hoaxes (remember "Balloon Boy"?).

    I'm not an attorney. Never been to law school. And yet, at a dinner party a few months ago, two of the guests who were attorneys thought I was a lawyer and wanted to probe me about some issues.

    Seems that in making conversation about an current event, I displayed some pretty profound legal knowledge. How? Never been to law school. Never argued a court case (except for the time I got off on a speeding charge by showing that the radar gun had not been properly calibrated and even that was because a cop friend told me what to say).

    On the way home, my wife asked me how I knew that. After thinking about it for a while, all I could conclude was that I picked it up through osmosis, being around lawyers and listening to lawyers talk about this and that.

    Same here. Anytime you're talking about something supernatural, like reincarnation, then the obvious Biblical arguments against it aside, the first thing you want to do is to make a list of the most obvious explanations and work your way through that list.

    In this case, they would have to show that the child had not been coached, had not seen some show on TV or a movie and filed it away subconsciously, like I did with my amazing legal knowledge, or simply guessed or imagined it.

    I always find it interesting that people who believe they've been reincarnated always believe they were something glamourous or noble in a previous life. Why not a bug? Why not a tree? Why not a French prostitute? Why not a Democrat?

    Everybody always says, "I was a Roman solider" or "I was Joan of Arc" or "I was an African Queen". Nobody ever says, "I was Leo, the village pedophile" or "I was a garden slug".
     
  15. HAMel

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    Everybody always says, "I was a Roman solider" or "I was Joan of Arc" or "I was an African Queen". Nobody ever says, "I was Leo, the village pedophile" or "I was a garden slug".

    Obviously, a dead giveaway as not everyone was rich and famous.

    Yes, there are probably a hundred different explanations as to what is really going on in the minds of all of us. As stated though, my point was to bring it up as for the most part, these issues are never discussed in Christian Circles and I think they need to be.

    I guess this attitude of a need to discuss such issues goes back to my teen years when like so many, I often thought my fears and anxieties were mine alone. In reality, we all had those feelings and with maturity came to realize it.

    Perhaps many of our young folks today wrestle with the same types of issues and with the advent of the internet, where will they end up in an effort to satisfy their curiosity? Straight to the world. If they ask mom and dad they might just get "shoo-shoo'd away?
     
  16. Thousand Hills

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    This happens to me everytime I go to the Baptist Theology & Bible Study section of BB and theres another Cal/Arm thread.
     
  17. InTheLight

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    n i c e . . .
     
  18. Thousand Hills

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    I understand the point your making about this thread. Several years ago when I worked with youth, I was teaching a lesson and had a teenager ask me about how dinosaurs fit into the picture. Didn't have a good response for him, other than go ask the pastor (don't know if he ever did). To my knowledge he is not in church today, and I wonder if something like this was a stumbling block for him.
     
  19. revmwc

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    Would you have an answer now?
     
    #19 revmwc, Apr 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2011
  20. TC

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    Many years ago my neighbor said that she was a camel in a former life. When my dad heard her say it, he immediately shouted "one hump or two?" Her face just turned beet red. If looks could kill, my dad would have keeled over on the spot. :D
     

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