"Never Saved To Begin With"

Approximately two weeks ago I said I would make two posts, one about baptism, and one about the phrase "Never Saved To Begin With". I made the post about baptism, but I got busy, and forgot to make the post about the phrase "Never Saved To Begin With". So here it is...

A man goes through the motions to become saved; he goes in front of the church and confesses himself as being a sinner, and he accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, asking God for His forgiveness for his sins. By his doing that everybody agrees that the man is saved. Later this man leaves his wife for another woman.

Okay, now this is where the OSAS proponents stands divided one from another. Some OSAS proponents would say that this man is still saved, and is on his way to heaven despite his adultery, while other OSAS proponents will disagree, and say that this man was never saved to begin with.

First, let's prove that such a man is NOT on his way to heaven...

1Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, NOR ADULTERERS, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The apostle Paul through the inspiration of God said that no adulterer is going to inherit the kingdom of God. So, how could the man above who left his wife for another woman, which makes him an adulterer be on his way to heaven?

Second, let's prove the hypocrisy of the "Never Saved To Begin With" tag...

Those who say that this man who left his wife to be with another woman was never saved to begin with, do you also apply that same principle to all of the other sins? For example; do you say that a person who tells a lie was never saved to begin with? Of course you don't; in my understanding that is called hypocrisy.

Okay, let's say that by this man not repenting proves that he was never saved to begin with, again you would have to apply this principle to all of the other sins. And what does repent mean? It means to "turn away" from the sin. To stop sinning (Read Ezekiel chapter 18.) So by saying that unless this man leaves that woman, and returns back to his wife proves he was never saved to begin with, then that would prove to be true for all of the other sins. Unless a person repents and stops telling lies, they will only prove that they were never saved.

Uh oh, how many people who have gone through the motion to become saved, has not truly repented of their sins? How many people will Jesus say to "I never knew you, depart from me ye evil doers? (Matthew 7:21-23).

In the name of Christ,

Ken

 

To answer your question, have I ever stolen or coveted? Oh yes, those things and much more; too many sins to name to be exact. But have I done these things SINCE I have become a Christian? No.

What you are doing is comparing the past to the present. The apostle Paul in 1Corinthians 6:9-11 is speaking of both past and present actions. Notice what he says...

1Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

This is speaking about people presently "DOING" these things. The man I used in my example is a man "DOING" adultery which makes him an adulterer.

1Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This is speaking about people who in past tense times did these things. Notice what the apostle said? "And such WERE some of you:"

Let me ask you straight out, do you believe that a Christian who commits murder is not a murderer? Or a Christian who tells a lie is not a liar? As a Christian, can I commit idolatry without being and idolater? Who would want us to believe that; God or Satan?

In the name of Christ,

Ken

 

Amy, let's take 1John 1:8 and compare it to a few other passages of Scripture written by the same author, and let's see how your belief holds up...

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If I say I don't sin then I am lying.

1John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

If I abide in Christ, I ought to walk as Christ walked. How is that possible seeing that Jesus lived a SINLESS life? If it is impossible, then this passage of Scripture would not be in the Bible.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If I say I don't sin then I am lying.

1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

How can I abide in Christ and sin, when here I am told that anyone who abides in Christ DOES NOT sin? Doersn't that put me in a catch all 21 situation? "I don't sin" you're a liar 1John 1:8. "I abide in Christ, but I sin" you're a liar 1John 3:6.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If I say I don't sin then I am lying.

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

How can I sin, and NOT be of the devil? Again, that puts me in that catch all 21 game. "I don't sin." you lie 1John 1:8. "I sin, but I'm not of the devil." You lie 1John 3:8.

The problem is Amy, that you have done what so many before you has done, and that is you have taken 1John 1:8 out of context. When you put 1John 1:8 into context, you will see that the apostle John was writing to non-Christians...

1John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, THAT YE ALSO MAY HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH US: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

...if the people this was addressed to were already Christians, then they would have already been in fellowship together.

Whether you or anybody else likes it or not the bottom line is this: God has a NO SIN policy...

Jesus told two people to SIN NO MORE (John 5:14; John 8:11); Jesus didn't tell them to try to sin no more, or to slow down on their sin. NO MORE means just that, NO MORE.

Jesus told a man that if he wants to enter into eternal life to obey the commandments (Matthew 19:16-17). Revelation 22:14 tells us that those who obey the commandments will have the right to the tree of life. Obeying the commandments is the WHOLE duty of man (Ecclesiastes 12:13). Disobedience of the commandments is sin (1John 3:4).

In the name of Christ,

Ken

 

Exactly right. The teachers of today teach that "SINNERS" go to hell, yet they teach that you are a sinner. So there message is "sinners go to hell EXCEPT those who are under the blood of Jesus." Then they deny teaching Jesus' blood as being a license to sin???

If I were to ask these people how may lies does it take to make a person a liar, they would say 1 lie. Then after I point out Revelation 21:8 which shows ALL LIARS will have their place in the lake of fire; they would dance around the passage of Scripture excluding themselves. So if you ask them why they wouldn't be included they would say they have Jesus.

So because I have Jesus I can tell lies, steal, murder, commit adultery, worship false gods, commit idolatry, not keep the sabbath day holy etc. etc.? Whew, has Satan got the blindfold on them tightly.

Oh, but wait a minute; they can point out how the difference between them and the non-Christian liars is that they repent of their sins where the non-Christians don't repent. This shows me that they don't know what repentance is. Repentance is NOT asking for forgiveness for sin, repentance is TURNING AWAY from sin. READ EZEKIEL chapter 18 PEOPLE!

in the name of Christ,

Ken