New book for me

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Pastor_Bob, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    I recently purchased The Bible Version Question and Answer Database by David Cloud. I haven't had time to read much of it yet, but I am very pleased with his introduction and explanation of what his definition of KJVO is and is not. I also very much appreciate his refutation of the idea that modern "KJVOism" was invented by a Seventh-Day Adventist.

    That is about as far as I have read. I was curious if others, particularly KJVOs, have read this book and what you thought of it.
     
    #1 Pastor_Bob, Jul 3, 2009
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  2. Mexdeaf

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    I wonder what he meant mean by "modern KJVOism" as opposed to any other kind.

    I'm not going to waste the money to buy the book, but that statement piqued my interest.
     
  3. Dale-c

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    I too would be interested to know what the term "modern KJVO movement" means.

    Though the SDA involvement does not really make a difference one way or the other in the falsity of the position.

    Though, if I remember your position Pastor Bob, you lean more towards TR preference right?
    Thus you would accept a german bible that used the TR or perhaps a newer english translation on the proper text?
     
  4. robycop3

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    If the term means "after 1930", Cloud doesn't refute it at all. All one need do is compare almost any of the current or recent KJVO material with Dr. Wilkinson's book. I have provided a link to the text of that book in a thread by that name. The evidence speax for itself!
     
  5. Pastor_Bob

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    I hold to a Received Text position.

    I would accept any version as the Word of God that accurately reflects the traditional Received Text, regardless of the language.
     
  6. Mexdeaf

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    Inquiring minds still want to know what the difference is in Mr. Cloud's mind.

    Thanks!
     
  7. Pastor_Bob

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    I couldn't assume to speak for David Cloud, but he is refuting the claim that "the modern defense of the King James Bible can be traced to Benjamin Wilkinson, a Seventh-day Adventist professor." He states that they "claim that Wilkinson authored the view that the Traditional Text of the Protestant Reformation is the preserved Word of God that can be traced through history." He further refutes the claim that, "J.J. Ray and David Otis Fuller picked up on Wilkinson's teaching and passed it along to the contemporary 'KJV Only' crowd."

    For any more clarification, you probably need to purchase the book yourself. Speculation on either side as to what he actually meant is really pointless.
     
  8. Mexdeaf

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    Ok, thanks for the clarification.

    God bless.
     
  9. Japheth10

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  10. Rippon

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    Why in the year 2009 do you think that the TR is so superior when conservative Christian scholars have clearly established that it is loaded with errors including, but not limited to, additions and omissions?
     
  11. Rippon

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    Well, Wilkinson certainly got the KJVO ball rolling. There really wasn't a KJVO mindet before his time. I have already established in past threads that late 19th and early 20th century Fundamentalists were not KJVO and in-fact some leaders actually preferred other translations.


    Why is it pointless? You have endorsed his book. Cloud's principle should be clearly articulated whether or not he makes any sense is another matter.
     
    #11 Rippon, Jul 6, 2009
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  12. Dr. Bob

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    I have not read much of Cloud with which I could agree. Stay away from the type who pull the ears of dogs, if you get the analogy.

    But Bro Bob or others who have the book should give the premise and author's position.

    Thanks.
     
  13. Pastor_Bob

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    I have in no way endorsed this book. In fact, I clearly state that I have read little more than the introduction.
     
  14. Pastor_Bob

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    I could do no more than give quotes from the book. Mr. Cloud has expressed that "this material may not be placed on BBS or Internet web sites."

    I cannot determine the intent of the author.
     
  15. RAdam

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    How have they "clearly established" this?

    The problem is people act as if the manuscript debate is an objective matter. It isn't. It's all subjective. Either one believes that the manuscripts used by modern translations represent the older and best representation of the original copies or that person believes that the TR and MT represent the older stream and thus are more accurate. One can point to scholars, but the scholars have made a subjective decision on this issue as well. One has to choose to believe one or the other, but the phrase "clearly established" shouldn't be placed anywhere near this debate.
     
  16. robycop3

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    To see the straight skinny for yourself, PB, just READ DR. W'S BOOK AT THE LINK I POSTED. Then, read Ray's & Fuller's boox, with Wilkinson's stuff close at hand for comparison. Once you do that, I believe, as you are an intelligent man, that you'll come away with a whole different view of Cloud's book, and KJVO in general.

    Now, I don't expect you to do it overnight; it took me several weex to read'em all, but I DID DO IT, and thus I am safely able to say what I do about the current KJVO doctrine arising from a CULT OFFICIAL'S book, no matter WHAT Cloud now writes!
     
  17. Pastor_Bob

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    I have two of Fuller's books: True or False? and Which Bible?. He does not mention Wilkinson at all in True or False?, but practically reprinted all of Wilkinson's book in Which Bible?. I have no idea of his rationale. It was quite ill-advised in my opinion.

    I also have God Only Wrote One Bible by James Jasper Ray. It is a small book (122 pages) and I could not find one reference to Wilkinson or his book. I merely looked at the references listed at the bottom of each page.

    To say that these books contain some of the same information is a given. They are defending the same position. Both men quote and reference multiple other sources much more frequently than Wilkinson.

    I don't buy books to find out what I believe; I buy books to find out what the author believes. I am open-minded enough to amend by position if I am found to be in error.

    I say this with all due respect, David Cloud does not approach the topics about which he writes flippantly. He has done his homework on this issue. I would be a fool to take the word of an anonymous internet personality who happened to read three books, over the word of a man who has documented proof and substantiated evidence for his position.
     
  18. Mexdeaf

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    Well, I guess somebody on the "con" side is gonna have to pony up the money to buy it and see his proof. Going to be hard to critique it on the BB but there's always Amazon.
     
  19. thomas15

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    Only $17.99 plus S&H
    Buy several, they make great gifts, especally for that hard to please KJVO on your gift list.
     
  20. Rippon

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    Cloud is about as accurate in his assessment of translational issues as he is on Calvinism, i.e.woefully wrong.
     

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